Pagan News and Views Since 1998
[10:00] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: I guess we can start with the introductions, Greetings, I am Aoddreas Bairseach, an Alexandrian High Priest, Elder of the Equinox Tradition, and creator of the coming soon PaganPage.com website. Welcome to our discussion on Coven, Church, or Solitary.
[10:01] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: If you would please, introduce yourselves, your tradition or current position in the community, and possibly a little about yourselves.
[10:03] Sage Moonsong: Merry Meet, Aoddreas! My name is Sage Moonsong, and I'm essentially a newcomer. I was interested when I was younger but it didn't really happen for a variety of reasons and I've recently found my way back. I'm a 1st Year student at the seminary as of a month ago and working really hard so I can be a Sophomore next year!
[10:03] firefly Bluebird: firefly bluebird , im a 2nd year student here at the woolston -stein wiccan seminary . i have been on my path since i was 17 and i am 31 currently.
[10:03] Morticia a.k.a. QueenAthenaDrui: I am Athena (currently Morticia though) and although I am not a part of any tradition yet, I do lean on Gardnerian. I am a Wiccan Seminary First Year student at WSTS. I have been Wiccan 7 years this coming October.
[10:04] Lowiezewic Jameson: Hai, my name is Louis, I am new here and curious. My interest is work related. I am a therapiet and came and come across your field of work a lot. Nice to be here.
[10:05] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: Coven, Church, or Solitary? For many, there is only the choice of solitary, but given the choice or the ability to create a group this can be a interesting question. A coven is a closed group working together, often led by a High Priest, Priestess, or both; while a church administers spirituality to the public. In Wicca, we often see covens but rarely churches, many groups are a little of both. and I think Sacred Cauldron is very much a church, as it offers public training and rituals to Second Life.
[10:05] MadHouseWitch: I am MadHouseWitch 2nd year student here at WSTS, and dedicant to Children Of The Crossroads Coven, Wiccan for 20+ years.
[10:07] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: Semi-Closed and close knit group, an open to the public church, maybe a little of both, and/or solitary is the question we are asking today. A church often requires a great deal more resources, relying on donation to keep the lights on, while in a coven the expenses are often shared among the members.
[10:08] MadHouseWitch: I think there is need for all three to work together, we need outreach to the public to help us not be "those scary witches" but covens help those who need to have secrecy for whatever reason, but still want a group setting... and solitary will just always be there for various reasons
[10:08] firefly Bluebird: i remember when i got started on my path and would hear that even though the people i would read their works in a book as a solitary parctiioner for me was ok. there was alot of people who published them at their perail or excommunication to their covens or so i was told then.
[10:09] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: I agree, we need that outreach that a church gives to the public, but for some the closed coven group is sometimes better for them
[10:10] firefly Bluebird: i think that all three styles should be still used. but the solitary one for me was only the one i started with because i had no choice.
[10:10] Morticia a.k.a. QueenAthenaDrui: When I started on my path, I started as solitary. Though I still am considered solitary, I have always wanted to find that right coven. Though I know someday I will.
[10:11] Sage Moonsong: I'm in an interesting situation. I'm very much an introvert and I generally prefer to work alone, and yet doing things with the people here has been really amazing. I think I'd love to be in a coven - but unfortunately my future is likely in Japan, where Wicca isn't too common.
[10:11] MadHouseWitch: I too started as solitary, there was nothing really near me to offer training, there was some open to the public pagan groups that did Sabbats, but not "church" status, but closest to that if we had to say
[10:12] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: For some of us, there is sometimes the option of instead of finding that coven, some of us have to start a group ourselves, getting the training somewhere like here and starting some form of group with others like us in our area
[10:12] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: Unlike many, I actually started Coven, I expressed my interest in things to someone I had met, who introduced me to a HP and teacher who ran a coven in my area at the time
[10:13] MadHouseWitch: I started a group as well, now I am balancing that circle with my coven as well
[10:15] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: I very much like the coven feeling, or a group of people working together, and I have also run a church for some time in RL, which was a coven that also had open to the public rituals at a nearby universal temple
[10:16] Sage Moonsong: I've not had the chance to attend a circle in person, although I'm hoping to find a circle I can guest in when I visit my family in April of next year. I've been totally blown away by the energy raised even online through a medium like SL and I desperately want to experience it in person too.
[10:16] firefly Bluebird: that would sounds so kewl :)
[10:16] firefly Bluebird: that sounds*
[10:16] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: I think many of the public churches are also covens, often a coven leading a church, who serves as the people who perform the rituals
[10:18] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: I have noticed there is a lack of public Wiccan churches which I think we need to see more of in RL, an outreach to the community around us to show people there are other ways to honor the divine
[10:19] firefly Bluebird: i agree
[10:20] firefly Bluebird: we dont need to go witnessing but , we do need more places for us to go so that we dont stumble around in the dark when we could have some light on the subjject
[10:20] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: Welcome Fae
[10:20] Morticia a.k.a. QueenAthenaDrui: In my community we don't have Wiccan churches because it's a mostly Christian community. My mother and I have been thinking about starting a Wiccan church in our community once I am to the point were I can.
[10:20] Sage Moonsong: Yes, firefly, I completely agree. It took me a long time to work out what I should do.
[10:21] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: We are discussing, Church, Coven, or Solitary
[10:21] Fαє Ѵằŉ Ŋēŵмάήή: Im a lone witch :)
[10:21] firefly Bluebird: my community is also mostly christian and those who say christian so they dont have to deal with jehova's withnesses and the like.
[10:21] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: in a way I wish I could do a church again but current situation I would have to rent a building to do so which I just do not have the money to do so right now, but perhaps in the future
[10:22] Lowiezewic Jameson: I don't agree. Men often seeks bonding and fullfilment under the roof and shelter of institutions like churches. The rules, regulations and needs then drive men away from the divine, wich cannot be found in instituitons, but only whitin onseself.
[10:22] Lowiezewic Jameson: A coven wil do in my view
[10:23] firefly Bluebird: i respect your opinion lowiezewic :)
[10:23] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: thank you for an opposite view too
[10:23] firefly Bluebird: so lets say that we dont go for churches .... would more covens help then ?
[10:24] Sage Moonsong: I definitely understand where you're coming from, Louis, as someone who was driven away from church when I was younger. And to be honest, I was surprised to hear that in the US you guys have Wiccan churches. The word "church" put me off a little at first.
[10:24] Lowiezewic JamesonLowiezewic Jameson smiles
[10:24] MadHouseWitch: there is some "hangups" on the word "Church" for sure
[10:24] MadHouseWitch: just like "Angels"
[10:24] Lowiezewic JamesonLowiezewic Jameson nods
[10:25] Sage Moonsong: Yeah. We don't have Wiccan churches in Australia, so I was definitely super confused and at first uncomfortable. So I can see Louis's concerns in that regard.
[10:26] firefly Bluebird: the main heart i think is that no matter what we call our group meetings there should be some empasis on having more places for our memebers to go that gives them a sense of community that we all want.
[10:27] Sage Moonsong: 100% agreed. ^^
[10:27] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: I like the idea of open to the public rituals open for the whole community, and I think a public group can help someone to find that spirituality within themselves, with public classes and the community you can find in a group, but also as I said most Wiccan "churches" are covens who grow together but also perform rituals for the public
[10:28] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: I agree Firefly
[10:29] Fαє Ѵằŉ Ŋēŵмάήή: I feel having the public classes helps to break stigma in the community :)
[10:30] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: yes, it does, and when we did public classes we did have people show up to see how evil we were or what we were all about and often left with a different opinion of who we were
[10:30] firefly Bluebird: i agree with that too, since now it isnt a justifiable reason for a witch hunt we can use the law to protect our rights a hec of a lot more now a days.
[10:30] MadHouseWitch: I agree
[10:30] Fαє Ѵằŉ Ŋēŵмάήή: The only wiccan church I knew about held meetings once a month in the middle of a forest, late at night. I was not going alone. I just wish it was more inviting
[10:31] Sage Moonsong: Yikes. I understand the want for the closeness to nature, and the secrecy, but that's definitely not inviting at all, Fae. But yes, I agree with everyone - I think public classes help change perspectives.
[10:31] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: yeh that sort of thing I would be a little skeptical of too
[10:31] MadHouseWitch: I do think too that some churches get discouraged... first from flak of using the word "church" and second for the greater community always being "down on them" for "not doing it "right""
[10:31] firefly Bluebird: from what i understand a coven is kept small so that the hp could handle the entiretly of it more easily.
[10:32] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: I also live in a mostly Christian community, in most of my state is, and even when I lived in the city and had a coven and church, we had problems with people from the christian churches around us, even once we were protested by some Jehovah's Witnesses
[10:32] MadHouseWitch: when I was doing public rituals we got some comments for the silliest things and the leaders have to be able to handle that well
[10:32] LolaStardust: i was in a coven that had 13 people in it
[10:32] LolaStardust: but the coven im in now is only 6, but thats due to small space...
[10:33] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: Welcome Stacia
[10:33] Sage Moonsong: Mm, therein lies another problem, MadHouse. There are so many branches of Wicca, let alone related pagan religions. When the recognition is already so small, it's no surprise that arguments happen
[10:34] Lowiezewic Jameson: Duty calls, see You all soon
[10:34] Sage Moonsong: Take care, Louis.
[10:34] LolaStardust: tc hun
[10:34] Darrell J. Delph: I am currently running a church in the Olympia Washington area, with six major public events a year, with a core group of about 20 members that hold monthly greenman events and moons for the coven.
[10:34] firefly Bluebird: thanks for coming lowiez
[10:35] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: Wow thats neat Darrell, that has to be some work for you
[10:35] firefly Bluebird: the thing that will put off many when it comes to this is that we are taught to stay silent. and going puplic isnt doing that at all.
[10:36] firefly Bluebird: the reason as to the book authors i was talking about earlier
[10:36] Darrell J. Delph: Our focus is serving minority faith groups in our area while providing a trained priesthood to support local festivals for the ATC
[10:36] firefly Bluebird: we have a embedded fear to not tell the outside world that we are who we are
[10:37] MadHouseWitch: that is true Firefly
[10:37] MadHouseWitch: warranted or not, sometimes it is VERY real to be fearful... other times it is perceived fear that keeps us from stepping up
[10:38] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: yes
[10:39] firefly Bluebird: i beleive that there is more wiccans where i live but because of what i was saying they stay in the dark hidden . which is fine if thats what they like i wont say that they cant but for me it meant isolation in the craft. which is why i feel strongly as i do about this topic
[10:40] firefly Bluebird: if it wasnt for this place here and another friend i have in sl i wouldnt be as far as i am no on my path. id be stuck hoping that my bocks come back to me from a friends place.
[10:40] firefly Bluebird: otherwise i would have nothing
[10:41] SpiritDove: you have yourself and thats where all the power comes from. :D
[10:41] SpiritDove: IMHO
[10:41] SpiritDove: or begins anyways
[10:41] MadHouseWitch: covens and groups, it is all solitaries coming together, and working together
[10:42] SpiritDove: IMHO= in my humble opinion. :D
[10:42] firefly Bluebird: yeah you are right but i know what i was like at that point and i would believe that i was alone and thats not what i want
[10:42] SpiritDove: yes it is good to find like minds
[10:42] MadHouseWitch: and it is sort of balancing some of the "weaknesses" so you learn from each other, and utilize the "strengths" of others
[10:42] SpiritDove: its like a family
[10:43] MadHouseWitch: to use the words that don't QUITE do justice
[10:43] MadHouseWitch: yes
[10:43] MadHouseWitch: but one can practice alone as well
[10:43] SpiritDove: it does sound sad when you say solitary but in my thinking im never alone even alone because im part of everything. :d
[10:44] MadHouseWitch: there is a benefit to Churches too... or Public groups at least, we had MANY college students who came to observe for assignments and that at least spread the knowledge around
[10:44] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: Unfortunately I need to wrap this up a little early, I need to leave at 10:45, this has been a great discussion with some very interesting points made
[10:44] firefly Bluebird: oh ok i felt like we could have talked about this for a long time tho lols
[10:45] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: Please if you enjoyed this and the events here at Sacred Cauldron, donate if you can to the cauldon next to me, SC is kept going by your donations
[10:45] firefly Bluebird: thanks for having this talk
[10:45] Sage Moonsong: Thank you for the talk! It was a great discussion.
[10:45] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: oh we could go hours on this topic lol
[10:46] Donation Cauldron - to Sacred Cauldron: Thank you for supporting the Goddess and Her ministries.
[10:46] LolaStardust: tysm for hosting this
[10:46] LolaStardust: sorry i wasnt participating
[10:46] LolaStardust: i was multitaskng
[10:46] Sage Moonsong: quietly has an OCD attack on the cauldron LOL
[10:46] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: lol understandable Lola, you multitask a lot lol
[10:46] LolaStardustLolaStardust smiles
[10:47] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: Thank you for coming everyone, I must be off
[10:47] firefly Bluebird: have a good day
[10:47] Sage Moonsong: Thank you again, Aoddreas! Blessed Be!
[10:48] firefly Bluebird: so what is next :)
[10:48] LolaStardust: that was our last discussion for GWS
[10:48] LolaStardust: but i am in the process of making this a regular thing
[10:49] Sage Moonsong: It was awesome. :)
[10:49] firefly Bluebird: im all for it
[10:49] Sage Moonsong: Alright I'm off to blow a little more money and then try on all my purchases >.> Thank you all for the talk!
[10:50] firefly Bluebird: :) blessed be sage
[10:55] firefly Bluebird: well im going to go for now but the summit was fun and hello obero nice look :) latrs all
[10:55] oberoirajnish1: can you make my couple