Pagan News and Views Since 1998
[13:05] Belladonna Laveau: Merry Meet, I am Lady Belladonna LaVeau, the Matriarch of the Aquarian Tabernacle Church, and Dean of WiccanSeminary.EDU
[13:06] Belladonna Laveau: We are grateful to be participating in joint partnership with the Correllians, Circle Sanctuary, and the Parliament of World Relgions to bring you the Global Wicca Summit
[13:06] Belladonna Laveau: Welcome
[13:07] Belladonna Laveau: Today's discussion will be in text for the purpose of archiving it for this historical event, and it will appear on http://thedailyspell.com
[13:07] LolaStardustLolaStardust applauds
[13:07] Belladonna Laveau: This discussion is purposefully for Wiccans to discuss today's needs as Wicca becomes a Global Religion, and what we would like to see in the future.
[13:07] Cassandee MeterCassandee Meter is proud to be part of this history
[13:07] AishaAisha applaud
[13:07] Belladonna Laveau: Today's discussion is on Online training v/s In person training.
[13:08] Belladonna Laveau: If you would be so king to introduce yourself, what training you have, what trad you practice, and if you are a leader, what you lead for the record, that would be very helpful
[13:08] Belladonna Laveau: kind, not king :)
[13:09] LolaStardust: HPS of Children of the Crossroads, BTW
[13:09] Belladonna Laveau: Then we can get on to the discussion at hand. What do you feel about inperson training v/s online training. Are they valid, needed, damaging? What are your thoughts.
[13:10] Cassandee Meter: I would like to say that I see this as a non conflict, the vs. implies that the two are diametrically oppossed, but in my opinion it is clear that the two can and do work beautifully together, hand in hand. I am a first year student here at WSTS and Online training is the first and most convenient way fo rme to begin my practice and initiation in the wiccan traditions
[13:10] Aisha: Merry meet everyone, My name is Aisha! I am a Second Degree Priestess of The Correllian Tradition. I have trainings with World Walking, as well as Dowsing.
[13:11] Belladonna Laveau: Merry Meet :)
[13:11] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: Aoddreas Bairseach, 3rd degree Alexandrian Tradition, Degree in Comparative Religion, Elder of the Equinox Tradition, currently only mentor people, and creator of the soon to be finished PaganPage.com community
[13:11] Belladonna Laveau: I agree Cassandee, as Dean of this school, I created it so that those, who were not near me, but begging for training could receive it. I never intended it to be a stand alone, but to work in concert with local training, if available.
[13:11] LolaStardust: I do both really...student here at WSTS and work with my coven
[13:12] Lucien: Hey, all.
[13:12] LolaStardust: Welcome!
[13:12] AishaAisha applaud
[13:12] Belladonna Laveau: Welcome Lucien
[13:12] Aisha: what a beautiful group!
[13:12] LadyMoonDanceHPSLadyMoonDanceHPS slips back in on her alt
[13:12] Belladonna Laveau: welcome back LadyMoonDance
[13:12] QueenAthenaDruid: Merry Meet. I am Athena Druid, Wiccan Seminary First Year student at the wonderful WSTS! I have been studying and practicing Wicca for 6 years actually, but wanted to further my education in Wicca to be (in hopes) a High Priestess.
[13:13] Belladonna Laveau: What do you find are the benefits of online study that inperson study doesn't allow?
[13:13] Damaras: I have had real life training but found it insuffcient. I talked with my coven and my teacher and it was agreed that I would leave the coven. I have found my time here at WSTS to be a much better fit for me as it is addressing subjects in a much deeper way
[13:13] LolaStardust: online is very convenient
[13:13] LolaStardust: u can do it in your underwear!!
[13:13] LolaStardust: lmao
[13:13] Damaras: Oh, I am Damaras (Kathy McKibben) and I am a first year student at WSTS
[13:13] QueenAthenaDruid: I find the benefits of online study better to be honest. I feel that there is more interaction and communication. Which is why I love it here and WSTS.
[13:14] Belladonna Laveau: lol, I'm in my underwear right now. lol
[13:14] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: with online study, people have much more access to information and resources they normally may not have in person, if there are no teachers or groups where they live
[13:14] Aisha: LOL
[13:14] Aisha: Same
[13:14] LadyMoonDanceHPS: Sometimes I wish I'd gotten MoonDance in some variation when I first got on SL, but I went with a different name that I use. This is my public Pagan name and has been since at least 1996.
[13:14] Ashke: Merry Meet! I am Michele Sorensen aka Ashke Navarathna on SL. I just found Paganism in January of this year, and just enrolled in WSTS last month. I am just starting my path. As far as I know there are no local options for training for me.
[13:14] QueenAthenaDruid: Oh Goddess Lola. I just sprayed coffee out of my mouth upon reading your comment.
[13:14] LolaStardust: lmao
[13:14] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: lol
[13:14] Aisha: Online has also helped me communicate with others in the community i would have ever dreamed off as well
[13:15] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: true, I have met a great deal of good people I would never have had the chance to in person
[13:15] LolaStardust: online connects people from all over the world!!
[13:15] Belladonna Laveau: I find that it gives me access to teachers that I otherwise would not have access to. Such as Gavin's classes. I would never have that opportunity in RL because I don't like in Kells, Ireland.
[13:15] LadyMoonDanceHPS: I'm disabled in RL and had to stop attending and leading RL events because of my disabilities. Online interaction allows me to be part of the community again.
[13:16] MadHouseWitch: I think there are pros and cons to both
[13:16] Aisha: If you have the means for in person. Then great. But I know I don't. I do not know how to drive, and I live far from anywhere that would do training. Online is just as effective if the individual is working hard and putting in the work
[13:16] Aisha: of course there are, just like anything
[13:16] AkiaFlame: for me online coarses are easyer because of chronic pain education outside of the house at set times isnt possible
[13:16] LolaStardust: yes online is great for those who dont have the access to rl training or disabilities
[13:16] Lucien: I think that if you can find the right scenario and teachers, that work for you, it doesn't matter if they're offline or online. What matters is how well it connects to you, and your spiritual life/path.
[13:17] LolaStardust: i like that lucien
[13:17] Damaras: yes Lucien I agree with that
[13:17] LolaStardust: but there is really something to be said about in person as well!!
[13:17] Belladonna Laveau: What are some of the pro's of in person training?
[13:17] LolaStardust: the face to face interaction is great
[13:17] Aisha: My mentor for the tradition did everything online with me, but we are blessed we are 5 minutes up the street from one another
[13:17] QueenAthenaDruid: In my community we don't have many Wiccans, therefore rl studies for me isn't an option. Besides if I hadn't come here I wouldn't have met all of you beautiful people.
[13:17] MadHouseWitch: I had to rely on online "training" for a time, because for a LONG time there was NOTHING near me, then there was but.... long story
[13:17] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: there is something to be said for in person initiation and group ritual, those are experiences you cannot get online really
[13:17] LadyMoonDanceHPS: I had the chance to study in San Francisco when I was younger as well as to go to PantheaCon, so I'vemet a lot of great Pagan authors in RL. It's to know if they are who they say they are online. You have to have them vetted.
[13:17] LolaStardust: the ability to "touch" that person
[13:17] Isidora LaVeau: As a 1st Degree Priestess of the Wise Tradition and 3yr student here at WS; I have found that having both online and in person training together helps me in immersion into my magical training so that not only do things stick better in my brain, but also in getting added information from multiple elders across the world.
[13:18] ღღღ Jaden ღღღ: I agree
[13:18] LolaStardust: then madhouse found me!!
[13:18] Aisha: LOL
[13:18] Aisha: a madhouse will always find you
[13:18] Aisha: LOL JK
[13:18] Aisha: hahaha
[13:18] AkiaFlame: lol
[13:18] LolaStardustLolaStardust nudges her coven sister
[13:19] MadHouseWitch: and I had to WAIT for it LOL
[13:19] Damaras: I could see where face to face initiation or check ins to see if you are actually doing what you say you are doing is valuable
[13:19] LolaStardust: to hold hands with my coven mates is really wonderful
[13:20] LadyMoonDanceHPS: I love the way that being online brings us together. And it can also help us find resources, even nearby ones, that we couldn't otherwise.
[13:20] MadHouseWitch: But that wait brought me here to WSTS so there is a bonus too
[13:20] LolaStardust: and the energy with the training back n forth is very palpable
[13:20] MadHouseWitch: yes the energy
[13:20] LolaStardust: but there is a great energy exchange online as well, but its just..different
[13:20] Damaras: You can feel energy from long distances
[13:20] MadHouseWitch: and being IN circle, seeing how the others react to the energy, is different from online
[13:20] LolaStardust: yes damaras
[13:20] LolaStardust: i agree
[13:20] LadyMoonDanceHPS: The internet seems to be a great way to share energy... but then it's all energy anyway.
[13:21] Aisha: my tradition does pride themeselves in their live initiations. I had people drive far way to my house
[13:21] LolaStardust: its just different, not better, not worse..just different
[13:21] Damaras: seeing faces is a good thing I agree Madhouse
[13:21] MadHouseWitch: you feel it online but it isn't "THE SAME"
[13:21] Aisha: they always tell me, it is a service. and it is their pleasure
[13:21] LadyMoonDanceHPS: Agrees with Lola "just different"
[13:21] Aisha: and since I live in MA we go and hang in slame for the day
[13:21] Aisha: salem**
[13:21] MadHouseWitch: sort of similar to the solitary vs coven, CAN you do things alone and feel the same way YES, but they are DIFFERENT animals
[13:21] LolaStardust: agrees with Mad
[13:22] LolaStardust: apples and oranges
[13:22] LadyMoonDanceHPS: nods
[13:22] Aisha: man what a difference a coven is. I was solitary for millions of years
[13:22] LolaStardust: onlne i get to feel energy from all the way across the country which is amazing
[13:22] Belladonna Laveau: I love the ability to be in a 'tween place online, it's definitely different and adds a dimension to magick that has to be experienced to understand, but I do not think it is the same or can replace being in person. They are different and IMO doing them both is best.
[13:22] Damaras: you have to find the "right" people or coven to circle with
[13:22] Belladonna Laveau: But, if you cant do them both, then it's great to at least have what you can have.
[13:22] LadyMoonDanceHPS: I thinks it great when you can have both.
[13:22] Isidora LaVeau: I am very curious to know and understand how 'online' training doesn't work at all. Is there anyone here willing to share that for me please?
[13:22] MadHouseWitch: I do think that SL adds a different element too
[13:22] LolaStardust: nods
[13:22] Aisha: yes it does.
[13:23] Belladonna Laveau: Such as if you're disabled and can't go to RL things. Or if you don't have a computer and can't so online things.
[13:23] Aisha: I have never ever used this platform
[13:23] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: I agree
[13:23] MadHouseWitch: even if just avatars it helps you feel a bit more connected than just a chat room
[13:23] LolaStardust: i enjoy both..but im just a tad bit partial to inperson
[13:23] Cassandee Meter: I think that if online training is not given the respect and important position of being seen as Valid and valuable, we loose a lot of outreach to people who might not have a lot of other options for ANY training or introduction to the practice
[13:23] Aisha: and it really those integrate a bit of the person/online element
[13:23] LadyMoonDanceHPS: I miss the RL physical connection
[13:23] MadHouseWitch: online is SUPER important
[13:23] MadHouseWitch: it's an outreach of sorts
[13:24] LolaStardust: so true cassandee
[13:24] Cassandee Meter: I have long felt that sl has an amazing capacity to bring things to life that might be impossible to do with the constraaints of human limitations and frailities of the physical realm
[13:24] LadyMoonDanceHPS: And Goddess knws, I don't think there is anything online the same as being blindfolded and lead through challenges.
[13:24] LolaStardust: and when i first joined online here at the school, i was skeptical
[13:24] MadHouseWitch: also can help us STAY connected to our elders longer, even if they were homebound or bed bound they can come participate on an online ritual
[13:24] LolaStardust: but that skeptisism went away fairly quickly
[13:24] Belladonna Laveau: I feel that calling anyone else's experience invalid is expressing one's own ignorance. How can you tell someone their experience isn't valid.
[13:24] LolaStardust: yes cuz those who are homebound need this outlet
[13:24] Damaras: I am not totally certain, however, there are staff here who are willing to take on individual students and they have a combination of online and in person training. I plan to ask for that myself.
[13:25] LadyMoonDanceHPS: But at the same time, I don't know what I'd do without the internet.
[13:25] LolaStardust: and we need them as well!!
[13:25] MadHouseWitch: OMGOOGLE LOL
[13:25] Aisha: there are people who do not have access in their country of the occult. it could be looked frowned upon or banned, so they look up to us
[13:25] QueenAthenaDruid: That's how I felt with the first online school I was on. I was skeptic and felt that something wasn't right. But I wanted to give a chance. Next thing I knew I was being bullied and harassed. I left that school and came. I haven't looked back nor do I intend to.
[13:25] Belladonna Laveau: We need everyone! All of us working together makes the web stronger.
[13:25] Isidora LaVeau: Yes CAssandee I totally agree. There is so much taht one can do in SL rituals that we just can't do in RL and makes taht ritual much more magical
[13:26] QueenAthenaDruid: *came here* Geez. I can't type today.
[13:26] Aisha: i remember seeing a video the chancellor of my tradition was speaking in, and a first degree priest was shot in front of his family, just because h converted
[13:26] Aisha: but he found us
[13:26] Belladonna Laveau: I understood you Athena
[13:26] LolaStardustLolaStardust waves at Dusty sneaking in
[13:26] Aisha: LOL
[13:26] LadyMoonDanceHPS: I miss cuddles, dancing mostly naked around a fire... the true Great Rite with your HP lover... the physical stuff. You can imagine it from the online interaction, but it's not the same.
[13:26] Belladonna Laveau: Hi Dusty <3 [13:26] MadHouseWitch: There are of course hidden DANGERS to both online and in person, BUT there is some of the RL ones that are lessened by the ONLINE presence too, and that is also important to note too [13:27] Aisha: i will say I have never sanced naked before LOL [13:27] Lucien: Haha [13:27] LolaStardust: oh i have danced naked many times [13:27] Isidora LaVeau: and being able to work in class with your rl teacher while their on the road is just absolutely AWESOME [13:27] LolaStardust: and not even all coven stuff [13:27] MadHouseWitch: someone claims one up line in RL, a seeker can often back that up with a few keystrokes [13:27] LolaStardust: so true Isi [13:27] LadyMoonDanceHPS: Oh... I used to know the best RL drummers [13:27] Cassandee Meter: I have danced naked inboth sl and in rl lol, it is not quite the same, sl is easierIMO [13:27] Damaras: i have not either Aisha, however, I did a skyclad ritual last full moon and it was wonderful [13:27] LadyMoonDanceHPSLadyMoonDanceHPS nods... and a Con we had a skyclad area where we hung at night [13:27] Belladonna Laveau: It's a lot less intimidating to dance naked in SL, that's for sure. I've made this avatar as SEXY as Linden's will buy. lol [13:28] LadyMoonDanceHPS: very local Con [13:28] LolaStardust: bella [13:28] LolaStardust: *~*~rofl*~*~ [13:28] Aisha: maybe after some or a lot of ale [13:28] Aisha: LOL [13:28] Damaras: lol Bella, sl is much easier to dance naked in [13:28] Belladonna Laveau: :D [13:28] Cassandee Meter: i know right!?! [13:28] LadyMoonDanceHPS: My first time skyclad was actually in a sweatlodge :) [13:29] MadHouseWitch: Our avatars can be a tool to embrace things we don't like, OR a way to hide the things we cannot deal with
[13:29] LadyMoonDanceHPS: lol.. true Damaras
[13:29] Belladonna Laveau: It helps to do a skyclad ritual in SL, because it makes you feel safer to explore. Less risk involved. Then you might been safer trying it in RL after you realize no one is going to actually focus on your skycladedness
[13:29] Damaras: now sweatlodges are really an in person thing.
[13:29] Belladonna Laveau: skycladedness? my new word. I word so good. lol
[13:29] Cassandee Meter: I know it is not the same as rl but I think the experience is super valuable to have this online community and a place to practice, to find guidance and support and to have magic like flying at your fingertips at all times...
[13:29] Damaras: yes Bella, hurray for a new word too
[13:29] LadyMoonDanceHPS: I actually get shy about showing my SL body.. lol... even my nice mesh one!
[13:29] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: lol
[13:29] Lucien: That's as with most things, though. Almost anything has the potential to do good or bad, it's about the individual and their choices. Granted, there's perhaps a great deal more bad being done online.
[13:29] LolaStardust: words rule
[13:30] Aisha: words absolutely rule
[13:30] MadHouseWitch: Online gets mocked a LOT more too
[13:30] LadyMoonDanceHPS: true
[13:30] Aisha: I know, and people think of it as "fake education"
[13:30] Lucien: Just look at social media, it's gotten incredibly toxic.
[13:30] LolaStardust: yeah some people ask me how do i do school in a "game"
[13:30] MadHouseWitch: we had a disruption at 9AM devo today (He left) but still
[13:30] LolaStardust: cuz they dnt understand SL
[13:30] Aisha: exactly
[13:30] MadHouseWitch: people don't "get" it, I didn't at first
[13:31] Damaras: yes, Lucien, there are many dangers on line. You have to be very careful and vett the people or organization
[13:31] Belladonna Laveau: yes, but there's that red x in the right corner that allows me to leave anything I perceive 'bad" online. That gives me ultimate power to protect myself
[13:31] LolaStardust: so they dont think my training here is valid
[13:31] LolaStardust: pisses me off
[13:31] LolaStardust: lmao
[13:31] Cassandee Meter: I am hoping to graduate from full digital experience in Wicca to full in person experience at some point, but i have not got the time or the opportunity in my rl to have this kind of education in any real way other then what we have here WSTS/Sacred CAuldron sl style
[13:31] LolaStardust: brb
[13:31] LadyMoonDanceHPS: I'd say it's definitely not the same, but it is valuable. I haven't take the classes here, but I can think of lots of classes that are just as good online... and some like energywork... take more ability to do over distances
[13:31] Belladonna Laveau: I believe people who are looking to invalidate others aren't sure that they are valid.
[13:31] Damaras: yes, Bella, I like the power I have to leave any situation on line. I am in charge
[13:32] Belladonna Laveau: In RL sometimes it's hard to leave an uncomfortable situation.
[13:32] Damaras: and I am ultimately in charge in real life too
[13:32] LadyMoonDanceHPS: Hmm...
[13:32] Lucien: It's almost as though people aren't entirely considered as valid just because they're communicating in a different manner, such as typing or on voice. Which seems odd to me personally, no more unusual than sign language or the written word. The only difference is distance. I'm communicating with all of you, even though I'm guessing you're all far away from me geographically.
[13:32] LadyMoonDanceHPS: How to say this...
[13:32] Cassandee Meter: lol, i was there, and incidentally a part of that encounter, adn i will say, it is easy to learn to tolerate people who impose themselves and invade your space on sl, when you know they cant actually hurt you or steal from you or anything, it helps me to learn to look at the person more closely then to just react as defense for my safety might cause me to act
[13:33] AishaAisha waking from massachusetts
[13:33] Aisha: waving***
[13:33] LolaStardust: back
[13:33] Belladonna Laveau: Hi Boston <3 [13:33] Aisha: ;) [13:33] LadyMoonDanceHPS: It's easier to leave here if it is an abusive situation and some people who may wish to have you in their physical control might mock it of just that reason.
[13:33] LadyMoonDanceHPS: for just that reason
[13:34] Lucien: And perhaps that's a key point...people are more willing to do peculiar things online because they usually don't have to worry about typical retribution that would normally happen in RL, due to proximity.
[13:34] Belladonna Laveau: I listen like a witch. This means, when people are pointing the fingers at others, that means this is what they are worried about within themselves. Then I ignore their original point and address them and their fears.
[13:34] Isidora LaVeau: Lola my exroommate has the same attitude. Jus tbecause I can interact with my teacher and classmates in SL (because sl is labled as a game) that I'm not in actual rl classes
[13:34] Belladonna Laveau: It stops a lot of bullshit
[13:34] LolaStardust: and i am living proof right now that online is wonderful cuz i am sick as a dog in my pjs and all snotty nosed
[13:34] LadyMoonDanceHPSLadyMoonDanceHPS nods at Bella...
[13:34] Aisha: that is lame. You are in Real Life classes
[13:34] LolaStardust: i couldnt attend a discussion like this irl
[13:34] LolaStardust: and get people sick
[13:35] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: lol aww Lola
[13:35] Damaras: awww Lola I hope you get better soon
[13:35] Belladonna Laveau: HOnestly you guys, we wouldn't be here if the Goddess hadn't shown me SL in visions for three or four years. She literally threw this sim at me, and gave me the money to pay for it.
[13:35] LolaStardust: so online allows me to be here with u all
[13:35] LadyMoonDanceHPS: If someone is angry/upset, the first question is ask is "What are they afraid of?"
[13:35] Aisha: but then again I know some people who may abuse it too. telling me how they faked it to the FD. but you can tell immediately, people who faked courses
[13:35] Belladonna Laveau: Hope you feel better soon, Lola
[13:35] LolaStardust: ty bella
[13:36] LolaStardust: caught it from my kids
[13:36] Aisha: This sim is awesome honestly
[13:36] Damaras: back to school sharing of new germs
[13:36] Belladonna Laveau: you shouldn't lie to Witches, that's all I'm saying. Witches, you. They know.
[13:36] Aisha: oh man do they know!
[13:36] Aisha: never ever!
[13:36] ღ ƒυмαçιтα ღ: ;) totaly
[13:36] Damaras: lol that is very true Bella
[13:36] Lucien: I like to view online gatherings and classes and such as an opportunity, a doorway for us to do things we normally couldn't. For example, my brother in RL is getting his Master's degree at an online college because he'll also be working full time, and he can't get to a campus as a result. This way, he can work and achieve said goal. :)
[13:36] LolaStardust: agreed!
[13:36] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: a little common sense and some questions can tell you when someone is abusive or fake, who trained them? What are they about? things like that can reveal a lot about a teacher
[13:36] Ashke: I feel safe here and am learning to deal with my social anxiety by interacting with people in groups here. IRL I have a panic attack in large groups. Online training is the only option for me both mentally and physically (no local coven).
[13:37] LolaStardust: yes i love that this is such a safe space
[13:37] LadyMoonDanceHPS: Coming from RL, I'd say that online is definitely not the same, but it has IMMENSE value. You can learn here. You can grow here.
[13:37] LolaStardust: the staff here works hard at making it that way
[13:37] Belladonna Laveau: I love that too.
[13:38] Belladonna Laveau: I also use SL for experimental ideas, to see if they will work, and what I need to do to tweak my plans, without expending much work and money.
[13:38] LolaStardust: thats a good idea
[13:38] Damaras: This is a lovely place and I can manifest what I want for my world irl by first manifesting it here.
[13:38] Belladonna Laveau: Online is less expensive and the results happen faster. I works great for me.
[13:38] LadyMoonDanceHPSLadyMoonDanceHPS nods at Ashke
[13:38] LolaStardust: like "if it works in sl, maybe we can manifest it irl"
[13:38] Belladonna Laveau: right
[13:38] Lucien: Hey, that's a good point...SL and online things can be good for visualization and manifestation.
[13:39] Damaras: and I have social anxiety too Ashke....I can manage it but it is hard at times
[13:39] LolaStardust: i have experienced some very inspirational rituals here that have influenced my RL rituals
[13:39] LadyMoonDanceHPS: There are so many reasons for learning online: Mental and physical issues, distance, safety.
[13:39] LolaStardust: hi laura!!
[13:39] Damaras: me too Lola
[13:39] MadHouseWitch: Also online interactions CAN help you overcome some Real life issues
[13:39] Belladonna Laveau: one of the things I'm working on now are walk through rituals that are *safe for public. Meaning the public won't get it, but pagans will. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't and I'm taking all that in while making plans for putting up walk through rituals at the Seattle Center in RL
[13:39] LadyMoonDanceHPS: Less expensive?
[13:40] Belladonna Laveau: Oh yea, every tried building a haunted house in RL? Lots of money involved in that.
[13:40] LolaStardust: hi carla!!
[13:40] Carla: hi
[13:40] Belladonna Laveau: Welcome Carla
[13:40] LadyMoonDanceHPSLadyMoonDanceHPS nods... you can do a lot with the directions and it gets take as simply being nature oriented
[13:40] LolaStardust: exactly!!
[13:40] LolaStardust: we can recreate the underworld here for just pennies!!
[13:41] LadyMoonDanceHPS: Oh, true! re Haunted house.
[13:41] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: lol
[13:41] Cassandee Meter: I have found that to me a very true and powerful feature of the online experience, that the lessons and changes I have worked through online have made a huge diference in my real life confidence and the strength of my personal power
[13:41] LadyMoonDanceHPS: True... put some $ into events for RL that were donation-based.
[13:41] Belladonna Laveau: ALso, you can breathe underwater here, so putting a haunted house in the river channels is super symbolic, couldn't do that in R
[13:41] LolaStardust: so SL adds much more to the online experience indeed!!
[13:41] Damaras: I agree Cassandee
[13:41] Belladonna Laveau: RL
[13:41] ღღღ Jaden ღღღ: lol
[13:41] LadyMoonDanceHPS: Very true. SL is anamazing plce.
[13:42] LadyMoonDanceHPS: amazing, even
[13:42] Belladonna Laveau: But, I would never initiate someone in SL
[13:42] LadyMoonDanceHPS: And thank you, Bella for SC.
[13:42] Belladonna Laveau: You're welcome LadyMoonDance
[13:42] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: I have noticed SL gives people a lot more confidence in what they are doing and in talking with other people and making friends that normally have trouble with that in rl
[13:42] Lucien: Maybe it's also about how we perceive something affecting us. If we believe it will change us and our RL for the better, it probably will. :)
[13:43] LolaStardust: yeah Mad said earlier SL helps people with some issues they may have in RL
[13:43] Damaras: I am looking forward to attending the Hecate Sickle Festival next month. I will get to meet many people in person and I think it is valuable to have opportunities like that to get together
[13:43] LolaStardust: it can be therapeutic
[13:43] Aisha: i hope to go to that one day! it is in my bucket list
[13:43] LadyMoonDanceHPS: I do think that even disabled and on limited income, it's important to donate to support the things we value, and that includes SC.
[13:43] Carla: I've been a mentor for disabled people
[13:43] Belladonna Laveau: I trained someone in SL, and went to see them in RL, they had not incorporated much of what they learned into their RL experience. I learned that to truly be effective the student has to apply the knowledge in RL.
[13:43] Cassandee Meter: I would never have been able to attend a meeting of wiccan leaders and have had the courage to speak my position if I had not found this training from WSTS, I found out about this place at the Pantheacon , and had done some small forays into learing about wiccan spiritual training, but this is the only way I would ever have made it to this time and place and for me to be the person I am today
[13:43] Belladonna Laveau: Me too Damaras, how wonderful to have you with us in person
[13:44] Carla: mentor and trainer
[13:44] Belladonna Laveau: and Cassandee we loved having you out at the house. I want you to move out here. :)
[13:44] Cassandee Meter: It might happen yet lovely! The seller backed out today!
[13:44] Damaras: thank you Bella and I agree that you have to incorporate what we learn and changes we make irl and the only way to really determine that is to see them irl
[13:44] Cassandee Meter: I am back looking lol
[13:45] Ashke: I think I will be more comfortable when I finally do go to RL events having met some of you in SL
[13:45] Aisha: My tradition does things online for the most part. But we do have global celebrations once a year as well as parliment. And they go to a lot of pagan prides/faires. But we have one MAJOR event. where we invite, not only or tradition but the pagan community as well
[13:45] Aisha: Bella and Dusty were there
[13:45] LolaStardust: this place helps people with social anxiety
[13:45] LadyMoonDanceHPSLadyMoonDanceHPS smiles at the mention of P-Con :)
[13:45] Belladonna Laveau: ok, let's get ready for summing it all up. Online helps for many things but should be used in concern with RL whenever possible. One does not replace the other. But, when the other is not available, it's a huge benefit to have at least one of the options.
[13:45] Aisha: and that is where we meet everyone for the first time
[13:45] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: I started out in an rl coven, and for a long time I was skeptical of training online, but I now see the benefits of it, SL changed my mind a great deal
[13:45] Aisha: Yess bellla! Exactly
[13:46] LolaStardust: good summary
[13:46] Lucien: *Nods*
[13:46] LadyMoonDanceHPS: "in concert", Bella?
[13:46] AishaAisha nods
[13:46] Belladonna Laveau: Bella and Dusty found a new family there that made them feel welcomed and loved, and a part of things. We cherish our Correllian family.
[13:46] Aisha: <3 we are all family. [13:46] Belladonna Laveau: Yes LadyMoonDance [13:46] LadyMoonDanceHPS: :) [13:46] Belladonna Laveau: <3 Aisha [13:46] LolaStardust: "we are family...ive got all my sisters with me!" [13:46] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: lol [13:46] Aisha: hahaha yessss [13:46] LolaStardust: sorry..i had to [13:47] Aisha: i just sang that wikked loud and my husband is now concerned [13:47] Belladonna Laveau: LOL Lola, you rock [13:47] Lucien: lol [13:47] LadyMoonDanceHPS: Sometimes the writer/editor kicks in. :-) [13:47] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: hehe [13:47] QueenAthenaDruid: I agree. You all are my family as well. [13:47] LadyMoonDanceHPS: lol [13:47] LolaStardust: i have made very wonderful connection here online [13:47] LolaStardust: that i wouldnt trade for all the tea in china [13:47] LolaStardust: altho i love tea!! [13:47] LadyMoonDanceHPS: Thanks for letting me visit from time to time. :) [13:47] Aisha: tea is the BOMB [13:47] Damaras: you all are great!!! [13:48] Aisha: hip hip hooray! [13:48] Belladonna Laveau: I feel that the most important thing to take away from this conversation is that it's hurtful to say that online training isn't valid, as that is sometimes all one has. To invalidate someone's magical connection to Goddess is rude and hurtful. We should try it before judging it.
[13:48] LadyMoonDanceHPS: Agrees
[13:48] LolaStardust: true
[13:48] DamarasDamaras nods agreeingly
[13:48] QueenAthenaDruid: Agree
[13:48] Belladonna Laveau: I have made lots of connections through here, and meeting those people as I travel enriches my life greatly.
[13:48] Cassandee Meter: yes please
[13:49] Aisha: exactly. if our pat is unique in it's own way. and there iis no right and wrong. then why are we judging those by the training they have had?
[13:49] Belladonna Laveau: Also, I love shopping in SL. LOL My guilty pleasure. And my tits are fantastic. LOL
[13:49] Aisha: LOL
[13:49] LolaStardust: they are irl too bella!!
[13:49] Damaras: lol
[13:49] QueenAthenaDruid: I hope one day that our paths will cross and we will dance in a circle full of love, joy and happiness.
[13:49] LolaStardust: just sayin
[13:49] Carla: The use of a virtual world as communication means isn't worse than other means
[13:49] Belladonna Laveau: lol thank you Lola
[13:49] LadyMoonDanceHPS: Each of us has to find what works for us.
[13:49] Aisha: exactly. we are doing the great work in our own way, together
[13:50] Aisha: and that is honestly beautiful
[13:50] Belladonna Laveau: it strengthens us
[13:50] Damaras: agree Aisha
[13:50] LolaStardust: i met bella before i joiined the school but formed a bond with her via this place
[13:50] Belladonna Laveau: as a people, it makes us stronger
[13:50] Belladonna Laveau: Yes, Lola, we wouldnt be as close if it were not for the school. And I would miss out on how awesome you are.
[13:50] LolaStardust: and meeting my school mates in person just strengthens our bond
[13:51] Aisha: i bet it does!
[13:51] LadyMoonDanceHPS: And honestly, unless you are working with someone, or studying from them, what right do you have to judge them? That's all about your own ego and insecurities.
[13:51] LolaStardust: so they go hand in hand really!!
[13:51] MadHouseWitch: also I think we need to keep in mind that the technology GROWS, some adopt earlier than others and come along with it (IE text only chat room rituals) NOW we can have SL rituals and VR rituals
[13:51] LolaStardust: true
[13:51] Belladonna Laveau: This has been a wonderful open compassional conversation. thank you for coming and sharing your ideas. Any last words before we wrap this up?
[13:51] MadHouseWitch: (I heard that they were trying to do a VR one for GWS)
[13:51] Aisha: it is a beautiful thing to see their progress and how much they have grown in person!
[13:51] Aisha: and it isn't that you had a doubt whatsoever
[13:51] Belladonna Laveau: Yes Madhouse. As witches we have to learn to live in our time, AND keep the old ways alive, in balance.
[13:51] Aisha: but seeing it, it is a sigh to see
[13:51] Aisha: sight**
[13:51] LolaStardust: just tysm for doing this!!
[13:51] Lucien: :)
[13:52] Cassandee Meter: I cant wait for the sl world to go vr, and to experience that!
[13:52] LolaStardust: and dont forget people i will be here at 5pm slt
[13:52] Cassandee Meter: vr rituals would be fantastic!
[13:52] LolaStardust: speaking about ranks in the craft
[13:52] Belladonna Laveau: I have a VR, it's getting there. Not there yet, but getting there
[13:52] LadyMoonDanceHPS: Brings new tech to the old ways keeps them alive and growing toward the future.
[13:52] Aisha: I have VR as well. That would be neat
[13:52] Belladonna Laveau: That's right Lola, your dicussion is today at 5, right?
[13:52] LolaStardust: yes
[13:52] Damaras: I may be a little late Lola but I will be here
[13:52] LolaStardust: awesome!!
[13:52] Aisha: I will miss it, but have an awesome discussion!
[13:53] LolaStardust: ty
[13:53] Belladonna Laveau: Please also look on my facebook page, or http://thedailyspell.com/GWS to get the schedule
[13:53] Belladonna Laveau: Don't miss any of the great conversations about ourreligion this week all the way through to Monday.
[13:53] LadyMoonDanceHPS: I can't do VR because of eye issues so will always be glad for options like SL. :)
[13:53] Belladonna Laveau: Thank you so much for joining us today. A transcript of this discussion will also be posted on the daily spell
[13:54] Belladonna Laveau: I want to thank Ed Hubbard for arranging this amazing week of discovery for our religions. Thank you for being a part of it.
[13:54] Cassandee Meter: Thank yo uall so much for your contributions to this discussion!
[13:54] Belladonna Laveau: Bbb
[13:54] Belladonna Laveau: ☆•°*”˜˜˜”*°•.¸☆ Blessed Be ☆¸.•°*”˜˜˜”*°•☆
[13:54] Damaras: Thank you Lady Bella for making this happen
[13:54] LadyMoonDanceHPS: SL is a keystone in accessibility for disabled Pagans.
[13:54] Cassandee Meter: yes, that^^^^
[13:55] Belladonna Laveau: if you received a spiritual experience today, please donate to the cauldrons
[13:55] Aisha whispers: Thank you Bella for all that you do!
[13:55] LadyMoonDanceHPS: Thanks, Belladonna, for this, and for all that you do.
[13:55] Belladonna Laveau: Sacred Cauldron runs completely on your donations
[13:55] Ashke: yes! there's no way I could've sat in a group this size IRL
[13:55] Belladonna Laveau: We appreciate you helping us keep the lights on. :)
[13:55] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: Thanks for a great discussion
[13:55] Belladonna Laveau: I'm glad we are here for you Ashke
[13:55] Aisha: This was wonderful! Nice to meet everyone
[13:56] Damaras: hugs all around for anyone who wants one
[13:56] Cassandee Meter: I am deeply grateful for all of this for all of us!
[13:56] Belladonna Laveau: Thanks again and have a great day everyone.
[13:56] LadyMoonDanceHPS: Oh.. cr*p... I don't have L$ on this account, but WILL donate some later. *hugs*
[13:56] AkiaFlame: lovely thank you Bella
[13:56] Ashke: I did still feel a bit intimidated, but not to the level of a panic attack :)
[13:56] LadyMoonDanceHPS: Breathe... just breathe
[13:57] Ashke: attending rituals here with large groups helps