Pagan News and Views Since 1998

Global Wiccan Summit - Rank in the Craft - Do they Help us or Hurt us?

Greetings! My name is Lola Stardust. I am a 4th year student here at WSTS, the SIM manager and Events Coordinator for the Sacred Cauldron, I facilitate the Threads of Wisdom discussions, and I am the High Priestess of the Children of the Crossroads in Spokane, Wa. I am so very honored to be here!
[17:05] LolaStardust: Welcome to our Global Wicca Summit discussion called “Ranks: Do they Help us or Hurt us?” The Global Wiccan Summit is a teleconference happening all over the internet in order to collect information from Wiccans everywhere re Wicca as a World Religion and the many topics that are being discussed. This information will be used by our leaders at the 7th Parliament of the World's Religions being held in November of 2018.
[17:06] LolaStardust: We here at the Sacred Cauldron are one of the many online participants in this Summit. For more information about the Global Wicca Summit, please visit www.thedailyspell/GWS.
[17:06] LolaStardust: So before we start, I ask the Gods to join us in this Sacred Space and ensure that all opinions that are stated here are heard and respected I ask that the Gods lend us their divine inspiration and support, that we may all learn and grow from today's discussion.
So Mote it Be!
[17:06] SilverMoonWisdom: ☽☉☾Տʘ /\/\ʘϮ∈ iϮ ß∈☽☉☾
[17:07] Iduna: so mote it be
[17:07] Scarlet Rose Strain: so mote it be
[17:07] Jennifer Weirdwest: So mote it be
[17:07] - Laura -: So mote it be.
[17:07] LolaStardust: Before we begin our main topic, I would love for you all to introduce yourselves so we can get to know you better . Tell us your name, what Tradition of Wicca you practice, do you have a leadership role in Wicca, if so, what is it?
And what value does Wicca offer you?
[17:08] LolaStardust: Go ahead and proceed...
[17:08] LolaStardustLolaStardust waves at Athena
[17:08] LolaStardust: We are just introducing ourselves
[17:08] QueenAthenaDruid: *waves to Lola*
[17:08] QueenAthenaDruid: Cool. :)
[17:09] LolaStardust: Are you all shy?
[17:09] QueenAthenaDruid: I am Athena. Wiccan Seminary 1st Year student. Student of Silver MoonWisdom.
[17:09] - Laura -: Hi Im Laura, Im in UK. I come from a family of witches basicaly. So its in my blood, And in my nature.
[17:10] LolaStardust: nice!!
[17:10] SilverMoonWisdom: I am SilverMoon, a Sophomore at WSTS. I am an eclectic solitary practitioner. I am the Scholarship Student Coordinator for WSTS. What does Wicca offer? Honestly, I see a lineage and nice pretty label to put on myself. LOL
[17:11] LolaStardust: giggles
[17:11] Jennifer Weirdwest: My name is Jennifer Weirdwest I live in Klamath Falls Southern Oregon. I am in the outer circle of the Corellian Tradition of Wicca and together with The Gardeniarian Tradition though I tend to be more solitary I am an ordained minister and certified life coach where I have put my faith and spirituality to work helping others. Wicca has been essential helping me connect with the universal law of attraction and manifesting things for my life and path.
[17:11] LolaStardust: Hi Renata!
[17:11] LolaStardust: have a seat
[17:12] Renata Topaz: hugs.. thank you will do once everything rezzes in..
[17:12] Scarlet Rose Strain: My name is Scarlet, I do not have a primary practice, as I practice all. My in laws are witches, with my mother in law being a priestess in the coven. Had my awakening a yr ago. and thats all I got. Still on my journey.
[17:12] LolaStardust: amazing Scarlet!!
[17:13] LolaStardust: TY all for sharing! all this informatin will be listed on the Daily Spell website to show others the wide variety of people atteding these discussions!!
[17:13] LolaStardust: Hi Damaras!!
[17:13] Isidora LaVeau: Isidora LaVeau, First Degree Priestess of the Wise Tradition and 3rd year student of Woolston-Steen Theological Seminary. I hold many roles within my community of the Aquarian Tabernacle Church, such as lead decorator.
[17:13] Damaras: Hello
[17:13] LolaStardust: wonderful!!
[17:13] Iduna: Hi, I am Iduna. I have no leadership role here, just devotionals, "Threads of Wisdom" and sunday night rituals for me. Been here now for a little more than a year and the Sacred Cauldron IS my church in SL :)
[17:14] LolaStardust: awesome!!
[17:14] LolaStardust: anyone else?
[17:15] Damaras: Hi I am Damaras and I am a red tent hearthkeeper and I lead devotionals
[17:15] LolaStardust: Hi Damaras
[17:15] Damaras: and I am a first year student in the wiccan seminary here
[17:15] LolaStardust: I feel like we are at an AA meeting.."hi my name is lola and i'm an ...oh nevermind"
[17:15] Damaras: lol
[17:15] Iduna: lol
[17:15] SilverMoonWisdom: lol
[17:15] LolaStardust: So lets get to our main topic, shall we?
[17:16] LolaStardust: Ranks in the Craft: 1st Degree, 2nd Degree, 3rd Degree, etc. These are important titles that lots of Wiccans work very hard at attaining. There are mysteries associated as you level up in the Craft, lessons you have learned, and privileges you earn as you climb the “Rank Ladder”. Let’s first talk about the importance of these Ranks and how they can help us in our Craft.
[17:16] LolaStardust: How do these Ranks help us as Wiccans?
[17:17] QueenAthenaDruid: To minister others?
[17:17] LolaStardust: nods
[17:17] LolaStardust: leadership
[17:17] SilverMoonWisdom: You don't do workings outside your "ranking" or abilities. It is a guide as to the hierarchy
[17:18] Jennifer Weirdwest: Ranks can help in that it gives a clear goal of things to learn and accomplish with the reward of the rank title being typically a compelling incentive to most people
[17:18] LolaStardust: ah there is that word..hierarchy..
[17:18] LolaStardust: nods
[17:18] QueenAthenaDruid: Perhaps to even guide and teach others.
[17:18] Isidora LaVeau: knowing anothers rank allows me to know your level of commitment to others in the craft and how much I can be helped my you, upon my first meeting you at least
[17:18] SilverMoonWisdom: We all need leaders to learn from and laws to follow if you ask me
[17:18] LolaStardust: nice isis
[17:19] LolaStardust: isi
[17:19] Damaras: the muggle world will accept rankings to be able to do things in a ministiaral way such as chaplains in hospitals or prisons
[17:19] LolaStardust: so true damaras
[17:19] LolaStardust: i havent even thought of that part
[17:19] MadHouseWitch: ranks are like a peer reviewed item, it is a way to know that the person who is a higher degree knows what they know and are not just blowing smoke up your...... pointy hat
[17:19] LolaStardust: giggles
[17:19] SilverMoonWisdom: And it is more than just ordination as well
[17:20] LolaStardust: how do ranks affect the person personally?
[17:20] SilverMoonWisdom: growth
[17:20] LolaStardust: mhm
[17:20] LolaStardust: for sure
[17:20] SilverMoonWisdom: connection
[17:20] Damaras: you gain confidence the more you are recognized
[17:20] LolaStardust: you guys have such great input!!
[17:21] SilverMoonWisdom: And they are less likely to laugh you off the podium as well. *Nods*
[17:21] LolaStardustLolaStardust looks at the podium in front of her
[17:21] QueenAthenaDruid: Strength
[17:21] SilverMoonWisdom: chuckles
[17:22] Jennifer Weirdwest: I think rank can really become a part of a persons religious and spiritual identity. something that associates themselves with their faith and the workings they have done within that faith. It enriches their personal story and testimony.
[17:22] LolaStardust: oh i like that!!
[17:22] Damaras: nods
[17:22] Renata Topaz: it depends on the person, some it is positive and they grow from it, and grow into it (which is most people) others it can create havoc.That they feel that they are better then others
[17:22] Isidora LaVeau: to me a degree tells me about how long you've been committed to one specific group and it also tells me that that group has noticed the level at which you are and honors you with that rank
[17:22] - Laura -: It sounds like any other qualification really, Or like getting your driving licence.
[17:22] Damaras: nods
[17:23] LolaStardust: What about solitaries who self initiiate? How do you feel about their ranks?
[17:23] MadHouseWitch: I feel like they still get looked down on
[17:23] Damaras: do solitaries have ranks?
[17:23] MadHouseWitch: as not "true initiates"
[17:23] LolaStardust: yes they do
[17:23] SilverMoonWisdom: I think most of them get laughed off the podium
[17:24] Damaras: I am a solitary myself
[17:24] SilverMoonWisdom: Nods at Mad
[17:24] LolaStardust: i know a lot of solitaries who self inititate
[17:24] Damaras: ok
[17:24] Jennifer Weirdwest: I mean most solitaries are already avoiding the podium as it is haha
[17:24] LolaStardust: and call theselves first or 2nd or 3rd degrees
[17:24] Isidora LaVeau: so my first degree, for me, is a way to say "hey new person, how are you? I've been here for a little bit and know the basics enough to guide you to a good teacher or at least someone that can help you"
[17:24] SilverMoonWisdom: LOL
[17:24] Damaras: well, I am self initiated however, I have not given myself a degree
[17:24] MadHouseWitch: when you get a "real initiation" then you will "get it" and be able to come to the table with the "big boys"
[17:24] SilverMoonWisdom: Right, me too Damaras.
[17:25] Woody Hasselhoff: hi friends!
[17:25] MadHouseWitch: Self initiate here working, but also dedicant
[17:25] LolaStardust: hi woody!!
[17:25] Isidora LaVeau: um solitaries are just as important as covens.
[17:26] LolaStardust: indeed
[17:26] MadHouseWitch: covens are made of solitaries
[17:26] LolaStardust: so true
[17:26] MadHouseWitch: sort of "weakest link" in some fashions
[17:26] Scarlet Rose Strain: isnt it with the many different practices of wicca, come different rank system?
[17:27] Scarlet Rose Strain: or are they all the same
[17:27] MadHouseWitch: but ideally the weak links are being strengthened by training
[17:27] LolaStardust: i believe some are different
[17:27] Isidora LaVeau: solitaries might just be solitary because they prefer to work alone and it has nothing to do with how much they know or experienced. I think maybe we have all been solitary at some point
[17:27] LolaStardust: depending on traditions
[17:27] MadHouseWitch: Or some due to a change in life circumstance
[17:27] Damaras: yes Isidora I agree with that
[17:27] Scarlet Rose Strain: i agree with you isi
[17:28] Scarlet Rose Strain: I like to work alone, but if another needs help or guidance i will help them till they are comfortable
[17:28] Isidora LaVeau: back to ranks..
[17:28] MadHouseWitch: still a 3rd degree turned solitary for whatever reason is still higher regarded than solitary by choice IMO
[17:28] LolaStardust: so yeah..ranks
[17:28] LolaStardust: but we were talking about self ranking so its all valid
[17:28] LolaStardust: so now lets flip the coin
[17:29] MadHouseWitch: solitary by choice is like an asexual to someone who is well... not "OH you just have not met "THE ONE" yet" LOL
[17:29] LolaStardust: Now let’s talk about how Ranks can hurt us and be seen as negative…
[17:29] MadHouseWitch: to some at least
[17:29] Damaras: that is why some people do not like wicca....because of the rank systems
[17:29] Scarlet Rose Strain: thats easy its called egos
[17:29] LolaStardust: abuse of power maybe?
[17:29] MadHouseWitch: "pulling rank" and lording it over others
[17:29] Damaras: at least that is what I have been told by some witches
[17:29] Scarlet Rose Strain: many people who have ranks let it go to their heads and think they are high an dmighty
[17:29] LolaStardust: mhm
[17:30] Scarlet Rose Strain: i experienced a person who did this and i had to set them straight
[17:30] SilverMoonWisdom: Nods* I have seen all of that before
[17:30] Isidora LaVeau: rank also tells me who the elders are. ;-)
[17:30] Jennifer Weirdwest: well i feel like since there is no supreme body issuing ranks and there is no set standard across the board that solitary ranks hold as much legitimacy as group ones. Anyone can get a handful of friends call themselves a group and issue a rank and I can say well I am the highest degree of this group over here but that means truly nothing but bragging rights and whatever the listener decides its worth to them
[17:30] MadHouseWitch: which is different than pulling rank and delegating or actual leadership skills LOL
[17:30] Scarlet Rose Strain: thats true
[17:30] LolaStardust: i sometimes feel foolish listing my "ranks" cuz i dont want someone to think i have a big ego
[17:30] LolaStardust: but i am proud of the work ive done
[17:30] Scarlet Rose Strain: it does say who is who
[17:30] LolaStardust: so there needs to be balance
[17:30] LolaStardust: (theres that word again.balance)
[17:31] MadHouseWitch: balance is why I'm here balance is what drew me to Wicca in the first place (or at least ONE reason that was a major one)
[17:31] Scarlet Rose Strain: but again when you see a stranger on his high horse, you cant really judge them on if their ego is in the way or not
[17:31] LolaStardust: i tell my coven members yes im your HPS, but that doesnt mean i cant learn from all of you
[17:31] Scarlet Rose Strain: cuz you dont know them
[17:31] Scarlet Rose Strain: i agree with that lola
[17:31] - Laura -: Isnt it just about people gaining confidence, due to more knowledge and experience?
[17:31] MadHouseWitch: that is IMO how good teachers work, they learn from the students too
[17:31] LolaStardust: "more knowledge"
[17:31] SilverMoonWisdom: Nods*
[17:31] LolaStardust: that is a tricky term
[17:31] Scarlet Rose StrainScarlet Rose Strain nods
[17:32] MadHouseWitch: it is I agree Lola
[17:32] Scarlet Rose Strain: i guess its how a person precieves the other person
[17:32] SilverMoonWisdom: Gavin tells us all the time that he is still learning
[17:32] LolaStardust: cuz i am a 3rd degree HPS, but there are people in my coven who know a lot more than i do, hence me learning from them
[17:32] Isidora LaVeau: I have heard Belladonna LaVeau say that she too learns from her students
[17:32] LolaStardust: i think, imo, my rank is about me stepping up to guide peple
[17:32] LolaStardust: people
[17:32] SilverMoonWisdom: Right, you can't be the best at everything
[17:32] LolaStardust: and show them how to guide
[17:32] LolaStardust: teach what i know, and learn what i dont
[17:33] MadHouseWitch: Rose is great at Herbalism, but tarot isn't her forte, meanwhile Cerulean might be the tarot master and not interested in herbs... do they lack knowledge? or do they compliment each other
[17:33] Scarlet Rose StrainScarlet Rose Strain nods
[17:33] SilverMoonWisdom: Nods
[17:33] MadHouseWitch: can they help each other out
[17:33] LolaStardust: nods
[17:33] MadHouseWitch: impromptu witchy names LOL
[17:33] SilverMoonWisdom: It can definitely run that way in a group.
[17:33] Scarlet Rose Strain: i dont think they lack knowledge mad
[17:33] LolaStardust: my "title" doesnt mean i know just means i am willing to help others and minister when needed
[17:33] Scarlet Rose Strain: its just the practise they chose to do
[17:34] Scarlet Rose Strain: some people have 1 some people have many
[17:34] LolaStardust: (love those names, Mad)
[17:34] MadHouseWitch: it means "I ran the gauntlet, and I am willing to help you too"
[17:34] LolaStardust: nods
[17:34] Isidora LaVeau: I'm not sure that rank tells how much a witch knows.... I think it's more of about leadership within the community.........
[17:34] LolaStardust: nods
[17:34] - Laura -: And respect.
[17:34] Scarlet Rose StrainScarlet Rose Strain nods
[17:34] LolaStardust: yes respect is important
[17:35] QueenAthenaDruid: Was my voice just on?
[17:35] SilverMoonWisdom: I feel like this is my coven, here at Sacred Cauldron and the Seminary. I learn from many and teach a few what little I know. I also stay aware of my limitations and don't try to do things I am not good at.
[17:35] - Laura -: No.
[17:35] LolaStardust: i dont think so athena
[17:35] Isidora LaVeau: no Athena
[17:35] Jennifer Weirdwest: The way I feel rank can hurt us is that there is always some pain with dividing and sorting ourselves. Always someone whos feelings may be hurt by the circumstances around advancement. There will also always be people only seeking glory and power over others who will mistreat the ranks and cause others harm. Because as wiccans we lack any structures beyond what is offered by our own traditions there is no regulation or standardization among the ranks. there is not exactly a grievances department to seek help if you feel you have been treated unfair or havent recived your sue
[17:35] Jennifer Weirdwest: due*
[17:35] QueenAthenaDruid: Okay. It was checked so I just wanted to make sure.
[17:36] LolaStardust: well put Jennifer
[17:36] Damaras: yes Jennifer
[17:36] Scarlet Rose Strain: if people practice and do it for the power, then what goes around comes around
[17:36] LolaStardust: in ways we are winging it
[17:36] Scarlet Rose Strain: they will never learn
[17:36] LolaStardust: cuz its uncharted territory to some
[17:36] MadHouseWitch: which is also why self appointed rank is a sticky mess, and why solitaries get flak for it
[17:36] MadHouseWitch: it is a vicious cycle there
[17:36] Isidora LaVeau: Wiccans lack structures?
[17:37] Jennifer Weirdwest: well i dont mean there is no structure
[17:37] SilverMoonWisdom: Right Mad
[17:37] Jennifer Weirdwest: i just mean outside the bonds of coverns and traditions there is no umbrella it all falls under
[17:37] Isidora LaVeau: I'm listening
[17:38] LolaStardust: and the word hierarchy was used earlier
[17:38] Scarlet Rose Strain: it can and cant fall
[17:38] Jennifer Weirdwest: Like for example in the catholic church there are chains of commands and regulation bodies and people have a clear avenue for redress of grievance but because we are smaller and more diverse we just dont have that
[17:38] LolaStardust: im not a fan of that word cuz its very much asscoicated with things i think wiccans try to stay away from
[17:38] LolaStardust: if that makes sense
[17:38] LolaStardust: what jennifer just said
[17:39] LolaStardust: *~*~rofl*~*~
[17:39] SilverMoonWisdom: Nods
[17:39] LolaStardust: i was always under the impression Wiccans tried to avoid hierarchy
[17:39] AnnaHumpfrey: sometimes, I think that people use rank to have power over people when I think that there is a lot of strength in leading by helping others to have confidence and stand in the light for a bit
[17:39] LolaStardust: but with ranks , isnt that a form of hierarchy?
[17:39] Isidora LaVeau: I see your point about the catholics. and not all christians are baptist. just like not all pagans are wiccan and not all wiccans are of the ATC
[17:39] LolaStardust: (playing devils advocate)
[17:40] LolaStardustLolaStardust waves to sean
[17:40] Damaras: there is a hierarchy it is just different for different wiccans lol
[17:40] Sean Weirdwest: waves back
[17:40] AnnaHumpfrey: I think ranks can be hierarchy and can also be different. I think it depends how they are used
[17:40] MadHouseWitch: I wonder if the term "heirarchy" was applied TO the older Wiccans or if it was something claimed from the inside? ponderism
[17:41] LolaStardust: that is where the rank system leaves a bad taste in my cauldron
[17:41] Isidora LaVeau: the is structure for getting a degree if one looks for it. as I have found structure within the ATC and I cannot speak on others as I have not experienced others
[17:41] LolaStardust: the whole "pulling rank" thing that Mad brought up earlier
[17:41] LolaStardust: yes structure is important
[17:41] LolaStardust: it is unified
[17:42] LolaStardust: and necessary, depending on the tradition
[17:42] Jennifer Weirdwest: right thats my point is there is no sense of importance and regulatory authority that you might see in some larger religions so people may feel a bit more frustrated when things dont work out and they have no big parent organization to seek mediation from
[17:42] Jennifer Weirdwest: with regards to rank i mean
[17:42] Isidora LaVeau: and depending on the group, it's size and the people within it
[17:43] LolaStardust: i know of some covens who do their ranks different than mine which is different from ATC , etc etc
[17:43] LolaStardust: and they are all valid ways to get your degrees
[17:43] Jennifer Weirdwest: which again its just an answer to how using ranks can hurt us as wiccans and the point i guess is the discountability within wicca about ranks and what it means and who as attained it and who has the right to give it
[17:43] AnnaHumpfrey: to me going through initiations is all about what happens to one, internally... to me, that is where the focus should be. Leadership is not power over, but power within
[17:43] LolaStardust: becuz what it comes down to is its such a personal expereince..its spirituality and that can be hard to "rank" sometimes..does that make sense?
[17:44] Damaras: Yes Lola, it does
[17:44] SilverMoonWisdom: Nods
[17:44] AnnaHumpfrey: agrees with lola
[17:44] - Laura -: Yes exactly.
[17:44] LolaStardust: so we cannot really compare ourselves to others when it comes to our ranks
[17:44] LolaStardust: becuz we are all on our own path
[17:44] Scarlet Rose Strain: yes
[17:44] AnnaHumpfrey: yes!
[17:44] Scarlet Rose Strain: I do agree with that
[17:44] LolaStardust: and some walk the path straight and narrow
[17:44] LolaStardust: some take all the long ways
[17:44] LolaStardust: we cannot compare nor judge
[17:45] - Laura -: Maybe we are all where we are ment to be,
[17:45] LolaStardust: but people often do....and that is where it hurts us
[17:45] Scarlet Rose Strain: nope we just support each other the best we can
[17:45] LolaStardust: nods
[17:45] SilverMoonWisdom: Yep
[17:45] Damaras: and I guess I see that we are all priestesses or priests and that implies, at least to me, that we step up and write and perform rituals and minister and help organize those who wish to be organized such as the devotional leader or even doing devotionals. It is about whatever you consider to be your community
[17:45] Scarlet Rose Strain: as was said earlier, we learn from each other and gain knowledge
[17:46] Isidora LaVeau: I think it depends on the individuals that wield their rank. is the individual with whatever rank, wielding for the upmost and highest good of all concerned or are they wielding out of a place of hurt?
[17:46] AnnaHumpfrey: agrees with isi
[17:46] LolaStardust: some dont realize they are hurting others
[17:46] LolaStardust: cuz they may not have looked within themselves
[17:46] LolaStardust: shadow work!!
[17:46] Damaras: that is true
[17:46] MadHouseWitch: I think the ranks "ideally" are dedicant=okay you want to try this out with us! cool! 1st= you are a full fledged Witch in our tradition go you! 2nd= AWESOME you want to do more for your coven/community we will put you up as 3rd degree in training! 3rd= you have proven yourself worthy of what it takes to do the work to train others and run things yourself....
[17:47] LolaStardust: which is a huge part of elevating
[17:47] MadHouseWitch: IMO
[17:47] LolaStardust: in some trads
[17:47] Damaras: yes Madhouse, I would agree with that
[17:47] LolaStardust: i like that
[17:48] LolaStardust: So to summarize: Ranks are helpful in showing others and showing ourselves we are willing to do the work and help others
[17:48] Isidora LaVeau: My apologies, I need to go. Blessings on you all. Have a great rest of your day/evening/ night
[17:49] LolaStardust: tc isi
[17:49] AnnaHumpfrey: Good night Isi
[17:49] Scarlet Rose Strain: thanks isi you too
[17:49] Damaras: blessed be Isidoria
[17:49] Scarlet Rose StrainScarlet Rose Strain nods
[17:49] SilverMoonWisdom: However, if you think about it, that doesn't give any credit to ones who might be self-initiated either.
[17:49] SilverMoonWisdom: Night Isi
[17:49] LolaStardust: the proof is in the pudding
[17:50] LolaStardust: if someone self initiates or even is initiated in a coven, if they are a "fraud" it will be shown to the world
[17:50] LolaStardust: does that make sense?
[17:50] Jennifer Weirdwest: i mean me being self initated is no less credible than someone in a group with their personal friends saying that they are initiated
[17:50] SilverMoonWisdom: Oh for sure
[17:50] LolaStardust: exactly
[17:50] Jennifer Weirdwest: what makes your group of friends more credible than me alone
[17:50] Scarlet Rose Strain: hmm is ranks really necessary? I understand why they are there, to see who is who in their training, but really is it necessary? What ever happened to going up to someone who practices and asking what they do, i mean you get to know your peers more
[17:50] LolaStardust: see my above responses
[17:50] AnnaHumpfreyAnnaHumpfrey agrees
[17:50] Damaras: I agree with that too Jennifer
[17:51] Jennifer Weirdwest: we have few organizations within wiccca that anyone recognizes as credible authorities
[17:51] Scarlet Rose Strain: instead of just seeing the title
[17:51] LolaStardust: Ranks arent for everyone
[17:51] Jennifer Weirdwest: although that being said most people feel their group IS a credible authority but thats in the eye of the beholder as with anything
[17:51] AnnaHumpfrey: the only thing I do not like at all is when someone who is a fraud with a high rank becomes public and gives the world an image that is totally wrong
[17:51] Scarlet Rose Strain: I guess im mixed about it, I see both sides
[17:52] LolaStardust: anna but their true colors will eventually come out
[17:52] LolaStardust: it always does
[17:52] Damaras: me too Scarlet
[17:52] LolaStardust: i have witnessed this first hand
[17:52] LolaStardust: you cant lie to a bunch of witches
[17:52] Scarlet Rose Strain: there is always a balance no matter what my mother in law taught me that
[17:52] LolaStardust: and those who fall for it, well that is a lesson they need to learn
[17:52] Scarlet Rose Strain: when there is dark there is light to follow
[17:52] MadHouseWitch: AND if you think about it if you are Trad X, Trad Y doesn't necessarily bow to your degree (though some pay lip service at least)
[17:52] AnnaHumpfrey: I am not meaning them lying to us, but to non magicky people
[17:52] MadHouseWitch: UNLESS you walk the walk and talk the talk
[17:53] LolaStardust: Lead by example
[17:53] AnnaHumpfrey: yes
[17:53] LolaStardust: Practice what you preach
[17:53] SilverMoonWisdom: nods
[17:53] LolaStardust: What a great discussion you guys!!
[17:53] Scarlet Rose Strain: as it was said earlier some people get ahead of themselves and jump when they need to stay where they are at
[17:53] LolaStardust: and hopefully they will learn from that
[17:53] Scarlet Rose Strain: yes
[17:54] LolaStardust: but we cannot force them, they need to see it themselves
[17:54] Scarlet Rose Strain: as hard as that sounds lol
[17:54] LolaStardust: hence why we need HPS/HP to guide them
[17:54] LolaStardust: some people are "unguidable"
[17:54] LolaStardust: or unteachable
[17:54] LolaStardust: but even in that, we learn
[17:54] Scarlet Rose StrainScarlet Rose Strain nods
[17:54] Damaras: and you don't need to be a 3rd degree to be a HPS/HP
[17:54] ℳʘʘℕ: like herding kittens
[17:54] LolaStardust: true
[17:55] LolaStardust: Thank you all so much for being here this evening. Your opinions and words will be heard! Before we close...

If you enjoyed tonights discussion, If you feel the work of the Gods coming thru us here on this SIM and want us to continue to provide these experiences, these amazing events and keep this beautiful SIM running, then please, lets bless the Cauldron, shall we?
[17:55] Scarlet Rose Strain: omg i luv that moon "kittens"
[17:55] ℳʘʘℕ: smiles
[17:55] LolaStardust: "Please share your energy once more in blessing the Cauldron of Prosperity. Let our hearts flow with generosity. As you give, so shall ye receive! Threefold, sevenfold, ninefold, more - May you have many blessings in store!" draws an Earth invoking pentagram over the cauldron... "SO MOTE IT BE!"
[17:55] Damaras: ☽☉☾Տʘ /\/\ʘϮ∈ iϮ ß∈☽☉☾
[17:55] Jennifer Weirdwest: So mote it be
[17:55] Scarlet Rose Strain: so mote it be
[17:55] SilverMoonWisdom: ☽☉☾Տʘ /\/\ʘϮ∈ iϮ ß∈☽☉☾
[17:55] ℳʘʘℕ: sorry i was late, stuck in traffic, does anyone have a N/C they can send me
[17:55] LolaStardust: And lets thank the Gods for assisting us this evening, making sure our opinions and words were held in the highest guard, for the highest good! Hail and farewell!
[17:55] Iduna: So mote it be
[17:56] ℳʘʘℕ: ☽☉☾Տʘ /\/\ʘϮ∈ iϮ ß∈☽☉☾
[17:56] - Laura -: So mote it be.
[17:56] SilverMoonWisdom: ☽☉☾Տʘ /\/\ʘϮ∈ iϮ ß∈☽☉☾
[17:56] Jennifer Weirdwest: May you all, always blessed be too.
[17:56] LolaStardust: Join us tomorrow at 2pm SLT as Lord Dusty Dionne discusses “Sex in the Craft – Polyamory and Lifestyle, Sexually Transmitted Degrees”…hope to see you all here for that topic!
[17:56] LolaStardust: If you would like a schedule of the upcoming discussions or even our regularly scheduled events on our SIM, please IM me and I will get you a nc.

If you would like info about our school, please visit
[17:56] AnnaHumpfrey: Thank you Lola!
[17:57] Iduna: Thank you Lola, you ROCK! :)
[17:57] Scarlet Rose Strain: thank you lola
[17:57] QueenAthenaDruid: ty Lola!
[17:57] Damaras: thank you and if you would like...evening devotional is at 8:15pm slt in the artemis shrine
[17:57] - Laura -: Thankyou.
[17:57] ℳʘʘℕ: thank you Lola, its been a great series
[17:57] LolaStardust: i am gonna copy n paste this whole chat in a nc if anyone wants one, please be patient while i get it made
[17:57] MadHouseWitch: Thank you Lola
[17:57] LolaStardust: and you can IM me if you want one
[17:57] SilverMoonWisdom: Thank you all for being here. :) Great discussion, Ms. Lola. Hugs all around
[17:58] ℳʘʘℕ: hugs Silver ♡♡♡
[17:58] Scarlet Rose Strain: oh i need to pm you lola
[17:58] LolaStardust: plz do so i can track who wants one
[17:58] LolaStardust: and what exactly u want
[17:58] AnnaHumpfrey: Thank you! Totally awesome discussion

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