Pagan News and Views Since 1998

[14:00] Dusty Dionne (jackalope.farspire) looks up and notices the clock hit 2pm
[14:00] Dusty Dionne (jackalope.farspire): HEllo and Welcome everyone to the Global Wicca Summit!
[14:01] Dusty Dionne (jackalope.farspire) claps and cheers
[14:01] xricluclima: I wrote it, it's part of my book.
[14:01] Aisha (zildania) claps
[14:01] SilverMoonWisdom: (`'•.¸¸(`'•.¸ ♬ ¸.•'´)¸.•'´)
[14:01] SilverMoonWisdom: ♫(`'•.¸:•.•:*¨*☆☆*¨*:•.•:¸.•'´)♫
[14:01] SilverMoonWisdom: ,.´:* APPLAUSE !!!! *:´.,
[14:01] SilverMoonWisdom: ☆ (¸.•'´:•.•:*¨*☆☆*¨*:•.•:`'•.¸) ☆
[14:01] SilverMoonWisdom: (¸.•'´(¸.•'´ ♬ ´`'•.¸)`'•.¸)
[14:01] Dusty Dionne (jackalope.farspire): I'm so glad to be here
[14:01] ᴛʀᴏᴜʙʟᴇ ᴄᴏʀᴀzóɴ (amenthes.ormega) is online.
[14:01] Dusty Dionne (jackalope.farspire): My name is Lord Dusty Dionne. I am the High Priest of the ATC Mother Church and Dean of Marketing here at WSTS.
[14:02] Dusty Dionne (jackalope.farspire): Can we take a second and have you all type in local who you are and what your relationship to Wicca is?
[14:02] ᴛʀᴏᴜʙʟᴇ ᴄᴏʀᴀzóɴ (amenthes.ormega) is offline.
[14:03] Sheidra (ladysheidra): I am Sheidra, 3rd Degree Correllian Nativist Priestess
[14:03] Dusty Dionne (jackalope.farspire): Also, if you could tell us where you're located
[14:03] Dusty Dionne (jackalope.farspire): Roundabout if you dont want to say exactly
[14:03] Aisha (zildania): Helloe everyone! I am Rev. Aisha. I am a Second Degree Priestess of The Correllian Nativist Tradition, Co-Head of Archaic Temple of Arcere, and I am the head of the Sea Priestess Training in my Tradition
[14:03] Dusty Dionne (jackalope.farspire): I am in Washington State, USA
[14:04] Aisha (zildania): Massachusetts, USA for me!
[14:04] Belladonna Laveau (belladonna.yarrowroot): Hello, I'm Bella, I'm Dean of the School and the Matriarch of the Aquarian Tabernacle Church
[14:04] Ashke (ashke.navarathna): My name is Michele Sorensen aka Ashke Navarathna in SL. I just discovered Paganism in January and enrolled in WSTS last month. I'm in Beaver, Utah, USA.
[14:04] - Laura - (laura222): Hi im Laura, I havent yet studyed wiccan. Though am very much a witch in heart and soul.
[14:04] SilverMoonWisdom: SilverMoon, student at WSTS, state of TN, USA
[14:04] Sheidra (ladysheidra): *currently on the East Coast*
[14:04] RosePinkArts: Hello i am Rose and i am so lost lol
[14:04] MadHouseWitch: I am MadHouseWitch, currently attending Woolston-Steen Theological Seminary. I help out with a few different things on this SIM. I've been a Wiccan for over 20 years now and am now dedicated to a coven in Wa State.
[14:04] joselle Silvershade: I am Lady Elizabeth Hamilton, a High Priestess within the Correllian Nativist Tradition, and Joint Head of the Universal Temple of Gaia. I'm currently living in my home state of Pennsylvania, USA. Thank you for letting us join this awesome conversation!
[14:05] RosePinkArts: yall are ignoring me?
[14:05] QueenAthenaDruid (wiccanseductress): I am Athena from Detroit, Michigan, USA. I am Wiccan that serves and honors the Lord and Lady and I have interests in both the Gardnerian and Alexandrian traditions.
[14:05] RosePinkArts: wtf
[14:05] daneli20: ok
[14:05] Brenna Grace (graceautumnsong) is online.
[14:06] Sarahk (sarahk06): Hi , i have,'t studied wicca itself so trying to learn more since a few months but practice things that are similar since a while already, i'm in europe
[14:06] Dusty Dionne (jackalope.farspire): Well it is wonderful to meet you all
[14:06] Dusty Dionne (jackalope.farspire): We are honored to get to host parts of this world wide event. This is a big topic so lets get started
[14:06] ϮMoRRiGaN AbRaHaMsϮ (morriganofwar): I am Morrigan I live in Greenville Ohio USA I am an eclectic wiccan
[14:07] Dusty Dionne (jackalope.farspire) is originally from Kent Ohio
[14:07] ϮMoRRiGaN AbRaHaMsϮ (morriganofwar): lag so9rry
[14:07] Brenna Grace (graceautumnsong): I'm Brenna and I'm from Seattle WA
[14:07] Dusty Dionne (jackalope.farspire): Sex in the craft is a hot button, and many of us have strong opinions on the matter. Today we will be talking about sex, the craft, student-teacher relationships, and what does and doesn’t constitute using sex for nefarious purposes vs having consensual, adult sex. Let’s jump right in!
[14:07] Dusty Dionne (jackalope.farspire): First question: Is Sex an integral part of a fertility religion?
[14:07] ϮMoRRiGaN AbRaHaMsϮ (morriganofwar): nods smiles
[14:08] Brenna Grace (graceautumnsong): I think it is definitely an integral part.
[14:08] - Laura - (laura222): Isnt it an integral part of life.
[14:08] QueenAthenaDruid (wiccanseductress): Yes. I feel that it is a ritual in itself also.
[14:09] SilverMoonWisdom: FERTILITY = Sex in some form
[14:09] - Laura - (laura222): There is magic in it.
[14:09] MadHouseWitch: yes, in that it needs to be acknowledged, it is an integral part of LIFE and we try to ignore that ("we" as in US society in the "mainstream")
[14:09] MadHouseWitch: So I agree with Laura
[14:09] Brenna Grace (graceautumnsong): without fertility, there would not be an earth on which we live. Sex is part of that fertility cycle.
[14:10] Aisha (zildania): Exactly Brenna
[14:10] SilverMoonWisdom: nods
[14:10] Dusty Dionne (jackalope.farspire): What makes something a fertility religion?
[14:10] joselle Silvershade: I would posit that for humanity, sex is certainly an integral part of our fertility... however, I must also point out there are species which do not need sex to reproduce.
[14:12] Dusty Dionne (jackalope.farspire): This is generating some lengthy replies!
[14:12] Dusty Dionne (jackalope.farspire): This is a deep and encompassing subject in our communities, so I am glad to see it taking time and thought to get the responses out
[14:13] MadHouseWitch: I would say CELEBRATING the creation of new life, honoring the cycles of nature SEED to HARVEST and back to SEED.
[14:13] MadHouseWitch: but ask again next week and that might be different LOL
[14:13] AshitakaTrapichero: maybe in a future we can engendrate childs without humans
[14:14] - Laura - (laura222): I dont fancy the idea though.
[14:14] Brenna Grace (graceautumnsong): I think the core of fertility is that it is a cycle, and that is what we worship as Wiccans. We worship the cycle of the year, of life, etc.
[14:14] - Laura - (laura222): Definatly Brenna,
[14:14] AshitakaTrapichero: Laura why? Science is evolving with giant steps
[14:14] SilverMoonWisdom: Yeah, what she said. LOL I was thinking of the cycle of life and the Wheel as well
[14:14] Dusty Dionne (jackalope.farspire): So, we know that sex is an integral part of a fertility religion (as only humans have religion and we are talking about human fertility, lol) So my next question: Symbolic Great Rite in Ritual vs Physical Great Rite Ritual
[14:14] AshitakaTrapichero: sorry for my bad english btw
[14:15] Dusty Dionne (jackalope.farspire): No worries, Ash
[14:15] - Laura - (laura222): Oh I misinterpreted.
[14:15] Brenna Grace (graceautumnsong): I have never witnessed a Physical Great Rite before. I imagine that in a trusted and safe setting, it would be VERY powerful.
[14:16] SilverMoonWisdom: For symbolic vs physical would also denote private ritual vs public ritual, but both can be used with the same effects
[14:16] Dusty Dionne (jackalope.farspire): When is it appropriate, what are the differences, and when would you find it not appropriate. Are both ways in line with the values of Wicca?
[14:16] MadHouseWitch: I think symbolic is great most of the time, I think in actual is wonderful too... but there comes lots of caveats
[14:17] Dusty Dionne (jackalope.farspire): Such as?
[14:17] Sheidra (ladysheidra): It is appropriate when there are sane, consenting adults around
[14:17] MadHouseWitch: MUST be consenting, with NO pressure between adults, both freely willing to engage in the ritual. PREFERABLY with some connection between them (IMO if it isn't then it cheapens the magic)
[14:18] MadHouseWitch: what is "connection" is up to the couple
[14:19] SilverMoonWisdom: I do think both ways are in line with our values, yes. You keep the physical private, conserving the energy and sharing the spiritual with your partner.
[14:19] Sheidra (ladysheidra): nods
[14:20] joselle Silvershade: Q: When is it appropriate to have the physical great rite: During a setting, time, and place wherein the participants of said sexual activities, no matter if they are penetrative or otherwise, are adults and able to legally and fully, enthusiastically, and completely consent without being pressured into it in any way. And anyone watching, must also be an adult and able to completely consent of their own free will (because rituals involving sex do happen outside and in front of other people).
[14:20] Darrell J. Delph (lordairadorn) is online.
[14:20] Sheidra (ladysheidra): yes
[14:20] MadHouseWitch: and it isn't a "show" most of the time when an actual great rite is preformed, they are left alone for a time (from what I have gathered) BUT if the coven is open with being... open... then that is okay too, again that adds the MUTUAL agreement
[14:21] SilverMoonWisdom: nods* Yep that is how I understand it to be as well in a coven setting.
[14:21] Dusty Dionne (jackalope.farspire): We have many multi family households in Wicca. Our relationships can look very different from others. What role does Polyamory play on the mindset of Wicca?
[14:22] joselle Silvershade: The physical great rite would NOT be appropriate if any party was not an adult who is capable of consent, whether they are partaking in the sex or just witnessing. Yes, as Madhouse said, EVERYONE must consent... or be permitted to exit and return, if they so chose. I also firmly believe if the physical great rite will be happening during a ritual everyone, BEFORE the ritual, must be told about this, as part of the precursor to being able to fully and freely consent.
[14:22] MadHouseWitch: I don't think it has a "role" itself, but Wicca is more open and supportive of that lifestyle
[14:23] MadHouseWitch: I agree Joselle, knowing in advance would be part of the consent though I think
[14:23] joselle Silvershade: I believe 100% that both the symolic and physical/literal Great Rite are absolutely acceptable in Wicca, given consent by all parties/witnesses.
[14:23] joselle Silvershade: Exactly Madhouse
[14:24] Belladonna Laveau (belladonna.yarrowroot): I like the phrase enthusiastic consent
[14:24] Dusty Dionne (jackalope.farspire): If you would like to keep talking about the Great Rite, I encourage you to
[14:24] - Laura - (laura222): I think its all about what feels right to every individual person. For people to join together in body and soul, In joy and love, Then its perfect. And may create new life.
[14:25] Dusty Dionne (jackalope.farspire): IF you want to hit on ANY topic that we have previously brought up during this discussion, I encourage you to
[14:25] joselle Silvershade: Yes Bella! It is one I learned from the sexologist Dr. Lindsay Doe, actually, and I do believe my Brother, Lord Phoenix Williams, uses in teaching about sex and consent as well.
[14:25] Brenna Grace (graceautumnsong): As for Polyamory, I think That because Wiccans are so open to things that are outside the norm, polyamory is more common in Wicca/Paganism than any other religion. We know that it is our job to meet our own needs, and we work toward that.
[14:25] SilverMoonWisdom: Oh, very well said, Brenna
[14:26] Sheidra (ladysheidra): nods
[14:26] SilverMoonWisdom: Been sitting here trying to figure out how to answer that one.....I kept coming back to love, love of self and of others.
[14:26] MadHouseWitch: I also think that ritualistically things could be adapted. for poly or same sex couples as well (if we go back to the Great Rite)
[14:26] Dusty Dionne (jackalope.farspire): So, is Love the Law?
[14:27] - Laura - (laura222): Yes Love.
[14:27] Dusty Dionne (jackalope.farspire): And if so, what does that mean to you?
[14:27] SilverMoonWisdom: According to the law, YeSaH
[14:27] MadHouseWitch: I am not Poly but I know some who are
[14:27] Åρhɾøḋïτε-Ĩṡhταɾ Åṉυṉṉαќï (astarte.celestalis) is offline.
[14:27] Brenna Grace (graceautumnsong): "My Law is Love unto all beings"
[14:28] MadHouseWitch: and abuse of power isn't love
[14:28] - Laura - (laura222): No.
[14:28] Brenna Grace (graceautumnsong) whispers: Keep pure your highest ideals. Strive ever toward them. Let not stop you or turn you aside.
[14:28] ραятєє мчтιLι (parthenea) is online.
[14:28] SilverMoonWisdom: Nods at Mad, right
[14:28] joselle Silvershade: As to the differences between the physical/literal Great Rite, and the symbolic -- one uses physical sex (and I don't think this should be exclusive to heterosexual sex, or even penetrative sex), and the other traditionally uses symbolic phallic object and symbolic womb object (athame and chalice are the most popular, from what I've seen but i don't see why other things could not be used if that floats the boats of whomever is enacting it!). Is the energy different? yes, absolutely. But the symbolism is much the same. The union of two forces which may be viewed as opposites, to generate that creative Force which can then be used to bless, heal, consecrate, or whatever other magickal use the pair enacting the Great Rite (and their group, if they are with a group) choose.
[14:29] MadHouseWitch: WELL SAID!
[14:29] Dusty Dionne (jackalope.farspire) gives the Obama 'not bad' face
[14:29] joselle Silvershade grins.
[14:30] SilverMoonWisdom: XD
[14:30] Dusty Dionne (jackalope.farspire): I think that was a powerful answer that kinda leads into another one of these questions
[14:30] Dusty Dionne (jackalope.farspire): This one is a little more avant garde
[14:30] Dusty Dionne (jackalope.farspire): How many of you knew that in the 70's Wicca was called "The Tantra of the West"?
[14:30] joselle Silvershade: Whoa, that's new to me!
[14:31] MadHouseWitch: I didn't know that either
[14:31] Aisha (zildania): Same here sister!
[14:31] joselle Silvershade: Why was it called that?
[14:31] SilverMoonWisdom: LMAO Doesn't surprise me.
[14:31] MadHouseWitch: *sad face* for not knowing LOL
[14:31] - Laura - (laura222): Never heard it.
[14:31] Sheidra (ladysheidra): makes sense
[14:31] SilverMoonWisdom: Nods at Sheidra* It does
[14:31] Dusty Dionne (jackalope.farspire): Why do you think it WAS called this? Why do you think it is no longer called that?
[14:32] SilverMoonWisdom: Free love and all that....nods
[14:32] joselle Silvershade: Would you mind explaining why it made sense to call it that?
[14:32] Dusty Dionne (jackalope.farspire): The stories I have heard, Joselle, are this:
[14:32] Sheidra (ladysheidra): Based on the early versions of Wicca before the chalice and athame
[14:32] SilverMoonWisdom: The late 60's and the 70's were a time of expansion of the senses in the USA.
[14:32] Dusty Dionne (jackalope.farspire): ack
[14:33] Dusty Dionne (jackalope.farspire): Before AIDS and before the abuse became rampant, or apparent depending on who you talk to, Wicca was about evolution through the mysteries of sexual union and power raising
[14:34] Dusty Dionne (jackalope.farspire): It's why it is still so much a part of our symbolism
[14:34] Sheidra (ladysheidra): Well, it does work well :D
[14:34] Dusty Dionne (jackalope.farspire): So, Tantra is a sacred and holy avenue of sexual awareness and energy raising
[14:34] joselle Silvershade: Ahhh, that does make sense.
[14:34] Dusty Dionne (jackalope.farspire): How do you think Wicca lost that light that Tantra has, and how do you think we could reattain it?
[14:35] ᴛʀᴏᴜʙʟᴇ ᴄᴏʀᴀzóɴ (amenthes.ormega) is online.
[14:35] Sheidra (ladysheidra): Quake-like mindset?
[14:35] Sheidra (ladysheidra): Quaker*
[14:35] MadHouseWitch: I think some might actually just be from Tantra itself too
[14:35] MadHouseWitch: basically we need to "resacred" sex
[14:36] SilverMoonWisdom: I agree. It became just a thing
[14:36] MadHouseWitch: I think that is the difference with Tantra, it is seen as beautiful and loving, and special
[14:36] SilverMoonWisdom: The energy raising and sacredness of it just wasn't passed on the same wayh
[14:36] MadHouseWitch: and SACRED
[14:37] SilverMoonWisdom: Nods
[14:37] SilverMoonWisdom: The sacredness of self wasn't passed in my neck of the woods
[14:38] MadHouseWitch: Tantra to my knowledge, never really came to a point where it was used as a "weapon" or a "gateway" ;does that make sense?
[14:38] MadHouseWitch: that is true too
[14:38] SilverMoonWisdom: Much less the sacredness of sex....other than "You better be a virgin to wear white at your wedding." LOL
[14:38] MadHouseWitch: the "West" puritanical view is very body shame, and pleasure shaming
[14:38] - Laura - (laura222): That is kind of a different attitude.
[14:39] MadHouseWitch: better yet, BE the virgin at you wedding.... I wore white and I had a 3 month old baby LOL
[14:39] joselle Silvershade: And the mention again of sacredness of sex leads me back to Dusty's previous Q: What role does Polyamory play on the mindset of Wicca?
My A: Whatever role those involved in polyamorous relationships/multi-family households want it to. I believe it is popular among Wiccans (and Pagans) -- not universally so, but Wiccan and Pagan demographics are where I've seen it frequently (although good luck on getting actual statistical data yet). I do not think it can be understated that polyamorous relationships take a LOT of work and a LOT of conversations and a LOT of communication. Communication is the #1 greatest skill anyone involved in any relationship (but particularly poly ones, in this instance) can have. Polyamory meshes so well with Wicca because Wicca emphasizes that love and sex are sacred things -- and that we can love MANY people at the same time, in many ways, whether it be romantically, sensually, as siblings, or any other way those people choose to define... and the love between more than two
[14:39] joselle Silvershade: people does NOT diminish the love whatsoever. Love isn't pie. Love is candlelight. The more love that is shared, the more light there is.
[14:39] Dusty Dionne (jackalope.farspire): So how do we "resacred" sex in WIcca?
[14:39] joselle Silvershade: Now THAT is the question,, Dusty!
[14:39] joselle Silvershade: That's kind of like the age-old question, how do we herd cats... *hmm-face*
[14:39] Dusty Dionne (jackalope.farspire): I have a sexual initiation, and so I know that it is a sacred event
[14:39] MadHouseWitch: respecting all boundaries of individuals
[14:40] MadHouseWitch: TALK about it don't make it hush hush (LIKE YOU KNOW NOW!)
[14:40] joselle Silvershade: I think the first step in re-sacred'ing sex is to have more discussions about it!!!
[14:40] joselle Silvershade: YES MHW
[14:40] MadHouseWitch: that makes it less likely that it can be abused in the future if people KNOW what they are in for
[14:40] joselle Silvershade: Honest, open, frank discussions.
[14:40] ᴛʀᴏᴜʙʟᴇ ᴄᴏʀᴀzóɴ (amenthes.ormega) is offline.
[14:40] - Laura - (laura222): Yes.
[14:40] joselle Silvershade: Not just about sex-in-ritual, but about sex in general.
[14:40] MadHouseWitch: from small scale to large scale
[14:41] - Laura - (laura222): Yes.
[14:41] Sheidra (ladysheidra): Killing the fear surrounding it, the shame, it will take time to re-program ourselves about it.
[14:41] SilverMoonWisdom: I agree with that one for sure.
[14:41] joselle Silvershade: What constitutes an act of sex? what does consent look like? What DOESN'T consent look like? What do we do if we feel like we are being pressured into having sex or any other thing by a member of our community, no matter their rank? Who do we call/email/go to?
[14:42] MadHouseWitch: each coven needs to know what each member is comfortable with (and revisit to see if views change, again NO PRESSURE, just how do WE feel?) and we MUST have discussions like these in public
[14:42] Sagan Skye (saganskye): just a tohought - when comparing wicca to tantra, the ancient history of wicca lends it a perception of authenticity and a sense of discipline that is difficult to establish in a young religion
[14:42] joselle Silvershade: ^ That's what we need to talk about, and talk about often.
[14:42] - Laura - (laura222): Take time to get to know the person we are getting close to.
[14:42] Sagan Skye (saganskye): typo - ancient history of tantra
[14:42] Elphabala Hoxley is offline.
[14:43] - Laura - (laura222): Its the magic of sex. Put the magik back.
[14:43] Brenna Grace (graceautumnsong) is offline.
[14:43] Aida Toxx: is anyone saying anything? or is my voice broken?
[14:43] Sheidra (ladysheidra): prove it is not just physical
[14:43] joselle Silvershade: Aida it's text :)
[14:43] Aida Toxx: oh
[14:43] Belladonna Laveau (belladonna.yarrowroot): To bring the sacredness into sex, you make love to the person as though they were God/dess and you invoke deity into them with the lovemaking.
[14:43] Aida Toxx: i have a hard time reading :(
[14:44] Belladonna Laveau (belladonna.yarrowroot): We want it in text, so we can have it for later
[14:44] Now playing: Liquid Mind - Moment Of Grace
[14:44] - Laura - (laura222): Yes Belladonna.
[14:44] MadHouseWitch: I agree Bella
[14:44] joselle Silvershade: One thing I think would help is to demystify nakedness, to whatever degrees we can.
[14:44] Aisha (zildania): That is exactly what I think Bella
[14:44] joselle Silvershade: YES Bella!!!
[14:45] Dusty Dionne (jackalope.farspire): I personally believe that if you and your student have been working together for years, and both of you as concenting adults want to have a traditional initiation, or you as a coven want to have a sexually based group, then as long as you come at it with forethought, love, and openness, then it will not only infuse the sacredness back into the act of sex in Wicca, but it will teach it to our students.
[14:45] MadHouseWitch: we have to fight the "naked=sex" too... which is interesting when we talk ABOUT sex here
[14:45] Darrell J. Delph (lordairadorn) is offline.
[14:45] Dusty Dionne (jackalope.farspire): Good pojnt Mad
[14:45] MadHouseWitch: because nudity does not mean sex.. it means that a person has a body without covering ;)
[14:46] Dusty Dionne (jackalope.farspire): Blanket Rules vs Individual Consequences. Should we lock down our communities with rules to preempt possible problems, or deal with individuals on a case by case basis when they step over a line? Additionally, if followed are the Wiccan Laws (Such as The New Wiccan Book of the Law by the late Lady Galadriel) already enough to keep us safe?
[14:46] Sheidra (ladysheidra): yes because the universe is mental- mentalism is just as strong or more so than the physical
[14:47] MadHouseWitch: ideally individual consequences, BUT sometimes those individuals make need for blanket rules (EI enthusiastic consent!)
[14:47] Ferril Cor (ferril69) scowls.....'wait what? Dusty is a man talking about Wiccan things...lmao'
[14:47] Катрин Пиърс (apuddycat) is online.
[14:48] joselle Silvershade: I agree with MHW -- we need to be careful when enacting blanket, zero-tolerance policies.
[14:48] SilverMoonWisdom: I agree with Mad on this one.
[14:48] Sagan Skye (saganskye): without a framework of rules, it is challenging to establish expectations and apply a form of consistency or fairness in individual consequences
[14:49] Sagan Skye (saganskye): need a balance
[14:49] MadHouseWitch: the issue is that the Wiccan Laws can be broken so it isn't "enough" to keep us safe... and newbies don't always know them right away, HOWEVER, they are helpful!
[14:49] joselle Silvershade: Sagan I agree that rules are indeed needed, too. Yes, balance balance balance! Is that not what we do every say, is seek such? :)
[14:49] SilverMoonWisdom: But with the laws we have and use, we are guided well in the instances that come up on an individual basis.
[14:50] Belladonna Laveau (belladonna.yarrowroot): I feel that we should honor the choices each other makes, if they are made with no harm to others, sex included. Respectfully accepting other people's paths as valid to them is part of honoring and respecting the uniqueness of our own path.
[14:50] MadHouseWitch: we also MUST be wary of "mass hysteria" in this technological age, or we could have "War of the Witch Worlds" on misinformation IMO
[14:50] joselle Silvershade: The newbies-not-knowing issue, at least within Traditions and groups, can be remedied to an extent by having the open, honest, frank conversations about them.
[14:50] Dusty Dionne (jackalope.farspire): We know the rules of say "Dont be a sexual predator" but when one shows up, is the response to tell people to wear long skirts and cover up the naked Pagan babies running around?
[14:51] SilverMoonWisdom: I agree that sex needs to be talked about more openly in groups and among families as well.
[14:51] MadHouseWitch: "9AM at this festival will include opening circle and mandatory sex talk" *giggle* but it would not be a bad start right?
[14:51] SilverMoonWisdom: And no, sir. You oust them from the group to keep the others safe
[14:51] - Laura - (laura222): Communication does seem to be key.
[14:51] Belladonna Laveau (belladonna.yarrowroot): no, the response is to stop him from attending. All churches have the right to deny anyone attendance, if there is a concern that they will disrupt the sacredness of the meeting.
[14:52] SilverMoonWisdom: Nods
[14:52] joselle Silvershade: Dusty, absolutely not. That is like telling a woman she should wear to prevent from being harassed/assaulted/raped. If there is a known sexual predator they should not be permitted within wherever they are attempting to gain access.
[14:53] SilverMoonWisdom: I think when the safety of our people is compromised you remove the threat, period.
[14:53] - Laura - (laura222): Yes,
[14:54] joselle Silvershade: MHW actually, at one body-positive, clothing-optional, sex-focused festival I went to a few years ago I do believe there was a discussion of The Ground Rules during the festival's opening talk, as well as opportunity for questions/clarifications. So yes, that's definitely a start... that way, nobody can say (for instance) they didn't know.
[14:54] ραятєє мчтιLι (parthenea) is offline.
[14:55] Катрин Пиърс (apuddycat) is offline.
[14:56] Sarahk (sarahk06): theres consent to say yes and freedom to say no , the important thing is respect of someone either way without judgement
[14:56] Dusty Dionne (jackalope.farspire): This has been wonderful. What I have heard us say is that consent, love, open discussion, age appropriateness, and desire are the most important things that we value when dealing with Sex in the Craft
[14:56] joselle Silvershade: Well-said, Sarahk!
[14:56] Dusty Dionne (jackalope.farspire): And only when they all are existing together
[14:56] SilverMoonWisdom: Nods* That is a good summery.
[14:56] - Laura - (laura222): And then there is magic.
[14:58] Belladonna Laveau (belladonna.yarrowroot): This was a great discussion. Thank you for attending.
[14:58] joselle Silvershade: Thanks again for having us. This was fantastic! :)
[14:58] Dusty Dionne (jackalope.farspire): We are coming to the end of our hour. It has been an honor to hold this space for you all today. The ATC and WSTS are non-profit entities. If we have facilitated a spiritual experience for you this afternoon, please consider donating in any of the caulrdons you find on the SIM. Please enjoy the beautiful surroundings and thank you for coming!
[14:58] Aisha (zildania): Thank you for hosting this!
[14:58] Sheidra (ladysheidra): Thank you
14:58] SilverMoonWisdom: (`'•.¸¸(`'•.¸ ♬ ¸.•'´)¸.•'´)
[14:58] SilverMoonWisdom: ♫(`'•.¸:•.•:*¨*☆☆*¨*:•.•:¸.•'´)♫
[14:58] SilverMoonWisdom: ,.´:* APPLAUSE !!!! *:´.,
[14:58] SilverMoonWisdom: ☆ (¸.•'´:•.•:*¨*☆☆*¨*:•.•:`'•.¸) ☆
[14:58] SilverMoonWisdom: (¸.•'´(¸.•'´ ♬ ´`'•.¸)`'•.¸)
[14:58] QueenAthenaDruid (wiccanseductress): ty Dusty!
[14:58] MadHouseWitch: this was an awesome topic
[14:58] Aisha (zildania) claps
[14:58] MadHouseWitch: TY Dusty
[14:58] Belladonna Laveau (belladonna.yarrowroot): thank youDusty
[14:59] Dusty Dionne (jackalope.farspire): LEt's bless the cauldrons "This is the blessings of prosperity: Threefold sevenfold, ninefold more. All that you give to the cauldron, from seed time to harvest: So shall ye receive!
[14:59] - Laura - (laura222): Thankyou everyone.
[14:59] joselle Silvershade: So Mote It Be!
[14:59] Dusty Dionne (jackalope.farspire): I'm glad you all had a good time.
[14:59] Aisha (zildania): So Mote It Be!
[14:59] - Laura - (laura222): So mote it be,
[14:59] SilverMoonWisdom: ☽☉☾Տʘ /\/\ʘϮ∈ iϮ ß∈☽☉☾
[14:59] Sheidra (ladysheidra): So mote it be
[15:00] SilverMoonWisdom: This was great, Dusty. :)
[15:00] joselle Silvershade: May I offer a couple resources that would be great for everyone to read and share, regarding consent? :)
[15:00] Dusty Dionne (jackalope.farspire): We work hard here at Sacred Cauldron, so if you havent been here before, please take some time to enjoy the many altars, sacred areas, and spiritual centers that you will find here.
[15:00] Ashke (ashke.navarathna): thanks so much. it has been very interesting and educational to witness this discussion!
[15:00] SilverMoonWisdom: I look forward to reading all the discussions on the site.
[15:00] Ashke (ashke.navarathna): me too Silver. I couldn't make it to all of them
[15:00] Dusty Dionne (jackalope.farspire): Blessings again and dont forget to write about your experiences online with the hashtag #GWS2018
[15:01] Second Life: Items successfully shared.
[15:01] Dusty Dionne (jackalope.farspire): I do have a last question if you want to hear it?
[15:01] joselle Silvershade: Go for it!
[15:01] Dusty Dionne (jackalope.farspire): I know time is up
[15:01] Dusty Dionne (jackalope.farspire): Should those with sexual trauma practice a fertility religion? Why?
[15:02] Dusty Dionne (jackalope.farspire): I have 5 minutes
[15:02] joselle Silvershade: Oh, wow. That's a heavy question.
[15:02] Dusty Dionne (jackalope.farspire): We have an event to get ready for this evening in Seattle
[15:02] Julianna Ewry: Yes, but in a safe space, with people they trust.
[15:02] Sheidra (ladysheidra): I concur
[15:02] SilverMoonWisdom: I think it can be healing if it is approached and taught in the right way.
[15:02] Sheidra (ladysheidra): nods
[15:03] - Laura - (laura222): Yes healing.
[15:03] joselle Silvershade: Yes, I think there can be a lot of healing. I definitely agree with Silver Moon on this.
15:03] Julianna Ewry: it can help release any pent up emotion
[15:03] SilverMoonWisdom: It can be damaging if not approached correctly, but it can also help to heal a great deal of the negativity that sticks and isn't easy to get off.
[15:03] joselle Silvershade: But that question and that answer also underline the definite need for more adult, frank, healthy discussions about sex, consent, etc.
[15:03] SilverMoonWisdom: Nods* It can.
[15:04] joselle Silvershade: Here is a great, short video that explains consent without the "baggage" that a lot of people have about sex.
[15:04] Sarahk (sarahk06): yes some healing needs to be done before
[15:04] Dusty Dionne (jackalope.farspire): And if we as a religion are able to bring healing to those with sexual trauma, then wouldnt that make us something sacred enough to hold the title "Tantra of the West"?
[15:04] Julianna Ewry: Always have a safe word, no matter if you're traumatized or not ^_^
[15:04] MadHouseWitch: many survivors have found a safe place in say Dianic traditions, and that becomes a stepping stone to heal them too
[15:04] SilverMoonWisdom: Grins at Dusty
[15:04] joselle Silvershade: Well, sure, perhaps it would... Although I'm pretty attached to "Wicca". ;)
[15:05] Dusty Dionne (jackalope.farspire): You know, they call soccer "The Beautiful Game" but it still get's to be Soccer
[15:05] Dusty Dionne (jackalope.farspire) smiles
[15:05] joselle Silvershade grins.
[15:05] SilverMoonWisdom: chuckles
[15:05] Dusty Dionne (jackalope.farspire): Okay, thank you everyone
[15:05] SilverMoonWisdom: So far...I know I like touch. LOL
[15:05] Dusty Dionne (jackalope.farspire): Blessings to you all and thank you
[15:05] joselle Silvershade: Thank you Dusty! :) May the blessing be!
[15:05] Dusty Dionne (jackalope.farspire): We have to let the people holding the space go home
[15:05] Sagan Skye (saganskye): thank you

Views: 149

Comment by Rev Master Wayne L Chonicki, PhD on December 25, 2018 at 9:52am

The Celtic word for God/dess worship has been often translated as "Those Wise in the Ways (of Nature)" and "Those Who shape and bend...".

One of the 20th Century's philosophers Robert Heinlein quipped amid his 'Intermissions' in "Time Enough For Love" that:
"A zygote is a gamete’s way of producing more gamete’s. This may be the purpose of the universe".

"A generation which ignores history has no past—and no future.", "All societies are based on rules to protect pregnant women and young children. All else is surplus age, excrescence, adornment, luxury or folly which can--and must--be dumped in emergency to preserve this prime function. As specie-al survival is the only universal morality, no other basic is possible. Attempts to formulate a “perfect society” on any foundation other than “women and children first!” is not only witless, it is automatically genocidal.",

"The shamans are forever yacking about their snake-oil “miracles.” I prefer the real McCoy--a pregnant woman."

"If the universe has any purpose more important than topping the woman you love and making a baby with her hearty help, I’ve never heard of it.",

"most preposterous notion is that copulation is inherently sinful.",

"Whenever women have insisted on absolute equality with men, they have invariably wound up on the dirty end of the stick. What they are and what they can do makes them superior to men, and their proper tactic is to demand special privileges, all the traffic will bear. They should never settle merely for equality.",

and lastly, "Little girls, like butterflies, need no excuse."

As "We Who are wise in the Ways"... the act of Copulation potentially begins Conception fusing an immortal Sentience to a mortal Anima and is humanity's "Alpha" Observable Nature" shows us NO greater mandate and 'sacrament' reciprocally... the Crossing Over' upon physical death is humanity's "Omega"

The practice of Astral Projection secularized to 'Remote Viewing' ...confirms "We" are MORE than only our 'Anima' but more importantly, that the Tantric aspect evokes... and SUBLIMATES... from our 'Anima' instinctually, the singular greatest REPEATABLE focus-able release of bio-electromagnetic radiant chakric muscular discharge (not unlike electric eels) Read psychologist Dr. Wilhelm Reich's "The Function of Orgasm"

The majority of Western Theocracy promulgates the powerlessness & 'unworthy-ness' of the 'sinful' individual ...whereas "the Craft" in its myriad variants, teaches 'empowerment', and gives it's Adherents BOTH the tools and the means to AFFECT perceivable reality. Prestige-of-Peerage must be 'earned' both by RESULTS (not rhetoric) and WISE application of such powers (not just 'ceremonially')

'Skyclad' nakedness or minimal attire maximally exposes One's skin, the largest sensory organ of the human Anima to achieve 'grounding' and homeostasis to the ambient Kundalini & Telluric currents. To become 'One with...' surrounding Nature. And in ritual to 'inspire' and 'evoke' those reproductive alure from One's peerage. Like caressing natural rubber against fur to concentrate a static charge.

And while 'the Great Rite' IS our sacrament, I defy ANY Priestess or Priest to achieve physical climax by sterilely plunging their Athame into a Chalice without the physiological Farraday effect of 4,000 male nerves excitedly friction-ing against 8,000 atavistically-receptive female nerves, with their awareness FULLY focused in the IMMEDIATE present. The Pagan equivalent of "et ceters, and so on..."

IF you AREN'T fully 'invested' (with suitable safeguards to preclude unintended conception and STD's).'s 'theatre' and ritualized dress-up 'cosplay'!

The TRUE challenge becomes in 'home schooling' the NEXT generation of our Craft's children's sensuality & sensibilities in a timely fashion.

Hebraic traditions 'baptize' and ritually drown or mutilate their male children's genitals, ...1st Communion or Bar/Bat Mitzvah, Quinceanos around 11-15 yrs of age and fully adult investment for Christians comes in 'Confirmation'. There once was a time that those not invested through Communion had to literally physically LEAVE the church service before the consecration of the Host~

Western Culture places 'adult'-hood at 18 yrs of age; IMAGINE censuring OUR children in an avowedly FERTILITY Faith as non-attendent adherents UNTIL AGE 18!

"Render unto Ceasar what is Ceasar's and unto the God/dess what IS the God/dess's..."
As a RATIONAL minority religious paradigm, never MORE important
"To Know, Will, Dare and to KEEP SILENT". B:.B:. )O(


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