Pagan News and Views Since 1998
[13:03] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: Greetings Everyone and Thank you for Coming, I am Aoddreas Bairseach, Alexandrian High Priest, Elder of the Equinox Tradition, and creator of the soon to be open to the public PaganPage.com, today we are discussing What does the Wiccan Community Need from Priesthoods Today?
[13:03] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: please feel free to introduce yourselves if you would be so kind, and maybe a little about you and your tradition
[13:04] LolaStardust: My name is Lola..i am a showgirl..lol
[13:04] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: lol
[13:04] Morticia a.k.a. QueenAthenaDrui: LOL Lola!
[13:05] LolaStardust: seriously..im the HPS of The Children of the Crossroads and SIM manager for the Sacred Cauldron. I practive basically BTW witchcraft leaning towards eclectic
[13:05] LolaStardust: And Im a student here at WSTS getting a degree in Wiccan Clergy!!
[13:05] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: All organizations, large or small, religious or secular, need leaders who are capable, controlled, and concerned about the welfare of their constituents. Whether in the church or corporate structure, knowledgeable officials who understand the business at hand are a necessity. Frequently, the creative genius of one individual is responsible for the organization's origin. His or her charisma maintains and controls the ties that bind. If the individual was skilled in the profession, he or she is remembered long after leaving.
[13:05] Aisha: Hi there everyone. My name is Aisha. I am a Second Degree Priestess of The Correllian Nativist Tradition, Head of the Sea Priestess Path Training in our Tradition, Co-Head of the Archaic Temple of Arcere. And I love my husband,cats, cosplaying Storm (X-Men), and video games
[13:06] Morticia a.k.a. QueenAthenaDrui: My name is Athena (now Morticia though) and a 1st Year Wiccan Seminarian. Though not a member of any tradition yet, I do lean on Gardnerian.
[13:07] MadHouseWitch: I'm MadHouseWitch (among other names) a Sophomore here at WSTS, I am devotionals coordinator for Sacred Cauldron, Mom of 5, dedicant to a local coven here (Lola is my HPS) and solitary practitioner for 20+ years
[13:07] Ashke: I'm Ashke. I've only just started learning about Wicca. I enrolled in WSTS last month.
[13:08] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: welcome everyone, thank you, so our topic today is what does the Wiccan Community Need from Priesthoods Today
[13:08] SilverMoonWisdom: My name is SilverMoon and I am the Scholarship Student Coordinator here at the Wiccan Seminary. I am a solitary from Kentucky who now lived in Tennessee. I have been practicing for almost 10 years. I started with books and now I am a Sophomore at the Seminary.
[13:08] SilverMoonWisdom: Lives in**
[13:08] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: wonderful to meet you all
[13:09] xricluclima: hi
[13:09] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: Hello SpiritDove
[13:09] LolaStardust: Hi Spirit!!
[13:09] SpiritDove: Hi
[13:09] Ďèńńĭş Ķóşţęŕ: hi spirit
[13:10] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: Within the scope of most religions is a hierarchy of priests who administer to the needs of the congregation. These ambassadors of theological wisdom are special people. Through dedication, initiation, and training, they can advise, teach, and lead others in spiritual matters. As emissaries of the divine, their lives should be examples of spiritual responsibility and a focus of discipline not usually practiced by the average individual. They, and they alone, have the right and authority to guide others upon the path and offer the sacraments of their religion.
[13:11] xricluclima: ual
[13:11] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: I think Wicca today needs a trained and knowledgeable priesthood, who have put in the work and training to lead others
[13:11] LolaStardust: agrees
[13:11] SilverMoonWisdom: nods
[13:11] Aisha: Agreed
[13:12] LolaStardust: i am new at running a coven and being a "leader" ...its a lot of work!
[13:12] LolaStardust: but we all gotta start somewhere
[13:12] Aisha: Absolutely. And if you are willing to put in the work, do your research, and not be afraid to ask questions. You will get there.
[13:13] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: it is a lot of work, more than most people would think, you practically have to be a priest (ess), leader, therapist, and teacher all in one
[13:13] SilverMoonWisdom: I think there are many who falsely claim the title of Priestess thoughj.
[13:13] SilverMoonWisdom: I am ordained, but I am not a Priestess as of yet.
[13:13] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: all too often, as probably some of you have seen, we find people who have read 3 books and proclaim themselves the grand high one and attempt to lead others, often with poor or even horrible results
[13:14] Aisha: Yea I have seen that a lot
[13:14] SilverMoonWisdom: nods
[13:14] Morticia a.k.a. QueenAthenaDrui: I agree Silver. Back at my first Wiccan school I was "given" the title High Priestess. Come to find out, the degree wasn't real. I was so mad.
[13:14] LolaStardust: my hubby says i'm gettng on the job training as a HPS
[13:14] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: One does not read a couple of medical books and then hang out a shingle declaring oneself a doctor. One does not attend a legal seminar and then start practicing law. Yet many have done this very thing with the Wiccan/Pagan priesthood.
[13:15] MadHouseWitch: I'm ordained... it is ULC but that doesn't mean it cannot be a serious ordination (though many DO make a mockery of that) but I am HERE too going through it the "real way" as well
[13:15] SilverMoonWisdom: Yep, me too, Mad
[13:15] Ďèńńĭş Ķóşţęŕ: you can not be a shaman/wiccan/pagan just by reading a book
[13:15] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: oh I was ordained through ULC too
[13:15] LolaStardust: true dennis
[13:16] SpiritDove: me too. :D
[13:16] SilverMoonWisdom: And Lola is right, she is getting on the job training, as she is running a coven
[13:16] Aisha: I have read tons of books, researched, study, and I was born into the craft. I not once proclaimed I was a priestess of any kind. Because, man, it is a totally different experience.
[13:16] Ashke: Bella said Wicca is a mystery religion that must be experienced, not just read about. There's much more than just pure knowledge involved.
[13:16] MadHouseWitch: I'm also a member of a CIRCLE as well (we don't have the hierarchy there) none are initiates we just like to practice together
[13:17] Aisha: Agreed Ashke
[13:17] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: you can learn about Wiccan/Paganism from books, but the belief and practive are a different thing than just reading
[13:17] MadHouseWitch: you can't just READ, you have to DO, but you can DO it alone too
[13:17] LolaStardust: nods
[13:17] Aisha: yes, it is all about action
[13:18] SpiritDove: i read a book on how to shoe horses once but I went to my horse looked at her feet and thought no way.. lol
[13:18] Aisha: LOLOL
[13:18] Morticia a.k.a. QueenAthenaDrui: reiko, I was also ordained through the ULC. :)
[13:18] LolaStardust: ha!!
[13:18] SpiritDove: and thats true story btw
[13:19] SilverMoonWisdom: Nods* It takes time and practice just like any other profession does. You have to study and do the work to learn the mysteries.
[13:19] MadHouseWitch: though I think we need to define "Priestess" or "Priest" too. are you the go between between people and the Gods, does one HAVE to have a "congregation" to administer to? or can you bee a good example to your community? and be THAT type of "clergy"
[13:19] MadHouseWitch: I think of Priest and clergy as different terms... in a way at least
[13:19] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: a lot of us were, even those of us coven trained got our ordination to perform marriages from the ULC
[13:19] MadHouseWitch: because simply by DOING your rituals you ARE priest or priestess
[13:19] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: I agree Mad
[13:20] Dusty Dionne: The Aquarian Tabernacle Chruch was originally ULC before it got the ball rolling on it's own paperwork, and eventual Umbrella Exemption
[13:20] LolaStardust: hi Peach!
[13:20] MadHouseWitch: I didn't know that Dusty, that is interesting
[13:20] SilverMoonWisdom: I didn't know that Dusty.
[13:20] peachcloud: hello
[13:20] Morticia a.k.a. QueenAthenaDrui: I didn't know that either. Cool. :)
[13:21] LolaStardust: im ignorant but what is ULC?
[13:21] SilverMoonWisdom: Here they look down on ULC because of the Vanderbilt thing.
[13:21] Morticia a.k.a. QueenAthenaDrui: Universal Life Church.
[13:21] LolaStardust: oh okay
[13:21] SilverMoonWisdom: Yep
[13:21] LolaStardust: yeah ive heard of that
[13:21] LolaStardust: ty
[13:21] Morticia a.k.a. QueenAthenaDrui: :)
[13:21] LolaStardust: Hi Sagan!!
[13:22] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: what we are talking about here I think is leaders in the Pagan Community, not just over a congregation, but those who can advise and teach others, Wicca needs people who can competently lead others and be a link between other people and the divine
[13:22] MadHouseWitch: Universal Life Church, they do "online" ordinations to anyone who asks, you just fill out a form... due to that nature they get a lot of flack for not being "real" but you can see a lot of good has come from it
[13:22] SilverMoonWisdom: That is why I am trying to get a degree and tie my practice to other organizations
[13:22] SpiritDove: anyone can be ordained online in must a few minutes. I was anyways if its the same one Im thinking of . I even printed out my diploma saying im a reverand..
[13:22] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: Hello Sagan!
[13:22] Sagan Skye: waves :)
[13:22] Morticia a.k.a. QueenAthenaDrui: Same here SpiritDove.
[13:22] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: thank you for joining us
[13:22] SpiritDove: its a valid in many states you can even marry folks
[13:23] SpiritDove: it was long time ago. not sure how it works now
[13:23] SilverMoonWisdom: And yes, we do need competent people to lead. That was one thing my hometown was missing.
[13:23] LolaStardust: i think we need leaders in oiur community not only to lead and teach, but to counsil and guide us
[13:23] MadHouseWitch: a lot of celes. use it, and many people use the ordination to just do weddings and have them be legal
[13:23] SilverMoonWisdom: Nods*
[13:23] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: thats why I got mine there too
[13:23] LolaStardust: and show us that we also can become leaders as well
[13:24] SilverMoonWisdom: Exactly, Ms. Lola
[13:24] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: leaders in the priesthood is also a calling, many of us were led to that place through the path we chose
[13:24] LolaStardust: i had no idea i wanted to be a leader til i saw leaders doing great work
[13:24] Aisha: I have always said everyone in the community is a leader in their own right. I never thought I was myself. And I didn't realize I was until people came to me for advise or spiritual help. And this was all before I became clergy.
[13:25] LolaStardust: same here aisha
[13:25] SilverMoonWisdom: Funny thing, I wanted to be a preacher when I was younger, but my faith then didn't allow for women leaders.
[13:25] LolaStardust: ive always had that air about me to be somene that people come to for help and guidance
[13:25] LolaStardust: it just made sense applying it to my craft
[13:25] SilverMoonWisdom: Nods* Yep me too
[13:25] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: I had no idea I wanted to be a leader till Ed Sott said I was going to become an initiated priest because people liked me and I had good leadership qualities, before that I was just going with the flow kinda lol
[13:26] LolaStardust: nods
[13:27] SilverMoonWisdom: As a solitary, I think of myself as a Priestess in many ways, but I don't go around calling myself that.
[13:27] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: I started in a coven when I was 17, kinda by accident, I met some great people and good leaders in the community through some people I met at a rocky horror show event
[13:27] MadHouseWitch: Well you ARE, and COULD but it is what you are comfortable with
[13:27] Aisha: I definitely think solitaries are.
[13:27] Aisha: That too Mad
[13:28] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: agreeed
[13:28] Aisha: I was solitary for 25 + years, before I started a coven
[13:28] SilverMoonWisdom: I am not connected to any specific tradition as of yet, even though I have been studying and working for many years.
[13:28] MadHouseWitch: I tried a few times in High School but it didn't work
[13:28] LolaStardust: hey we are going to rocky horror tonite!!
[13:28] MadHouseWitch: LOL I was going to say that!!
[13:28] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: LOL
[13:29] Aisha: LOL
[13:29] LolaStardust: after our esbat!!
[13:29] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: you meet some of the most interesting people in unusual ways
[13:29] LolaStardust: well im an old school raver and i met so many witches at raves
[13:29] Belladonna Laveau: I think the needs of the community have changed over the years and what they are looking for from Clergy is different now than it was when I was a seeker.
[13:29] Belladonna Yarrowroot (Q-Translator b:en->pt): Acho que as necessidades da Comunidade mudaram ao longo dos anos e o que eles estão à procura do clero é diferente do que era quando eu era um seeker.
[13:29] LolaStardust: cuz us witches love to party!!
[13:29] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: in SL, I have seen a lot of really good leaders in the pagan community on here, particularly from SC
[13:30] SilverMoonWisdom: I have met many wonderful people at a festival I never knew about until I moved to Tennessee and stumbled across the shop of Tish Owens.
[13:30] Belladonna Laveau: Thank you Reiko. We do our best. :) There are some great leaders on SL, it's true
[13:30] Belladonna Yarrowroot (Q-Translator b:en->pt): Obrigado Reiko. Nós fazemos o nosso melhor. :) Existem alguns grandes líderes no SL, é verdade
[13:30] SilverMoonWisdom: I couldn't believe it was so close and never knew about it all those years.
[13:30] SilverMoonWisdom: I never knew*
[13:31] LolaStardust: bella, how are the needs different from when u started?
[13:31] Belladonna Laveau: SL helps us reach people that we otherwise would not be able to reach and allows clergy to explore new ideas and try our programs without investing a lot of moeny.
[13:31] Belladonna Yarrowroot (Q-Translator b:en->pt): SL nos ajuda a atingir as pessoas que caso contrário não seria capazes de alcançar e permite que o clero explorar novas ideias e experimente nossos programas sem investir muito dinheiro.
[13:31] Belladonna Laveau: Well Lola, when I was a seeker, allwe wanted to do was learn magic
[13:31] Belladonna Yarrowroot (Q-Translator b:en->pt): Bem Lola, quando eu era um investigador, tudo que queria fazer era aprender magia
[13:31] Belladonna Laveau: We had religious leaders that could do weddings and funerals that our parents used, and that was easy
[13:31] Belladonna Yarrowroot (Q-Translator b:en->pt): Tivemos os líderes religiosos que poderiam fazer casamentos e funerais que nossos pais, e que era fácil
[13:31] xricluclima: It's been twenty hours, I'm going to buy Ganja, and I'm sorry that I'm sorry ...
[13:31] LolaStardust: so no idea you would be a leader
[13:31] SilverMoonWisdom: I even got to meet Bella and Dusty there face-to-face. And it was Oberon Zell-Ravenheart that brought me to SL where I found the Seminary.
[13:31] Belladonna Laveau: Wicca was a thing you did with a small group of people privately.
[13:31] Belladonna Yarrowroot (Q-Translator b:en->pt): Wicca era uma coisa que você fez com um pequeno grupo de pessoas em particular.
[13:32] SilverMoonWisdom: I met him at the festival. LOL
[13:32] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: I agree with you there Bella, mostly, I think Wiccan has always needed leadership in the clergy for as long as I have been, to lead people in more of the spiritual aspects than just the magic
[13:32] SilverMoonWisdom: Nods*
[13:32] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: maybe I have just been out of the broom closet so long I forget what it was like to be in it too
[13:32] Belladonna Laveau: Now there are so many of us and second and third generations of us, we want leaders that can do for our community what other leaders do for theirs
[13:32] Belladonna Laveau: we want weddings, funerals, rites of passage, counseling, etc
[13:32] Belladonna Yarrowroot (Q-Translator b:en->pt): Queremos a casamentos, funerais, rituais de passagem, aconselhamento, etc.
[13:32] LolaStardust: i had no idea about clergy and degrees and all of that til i joined a coven
[13:33] LolaStardust: which my old coven led me to this school
[13:33] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: I totally agree with you there Belladonna
[13:33] LolaStardust: and put me on the path of becoming a leader in the community
[13:33] SilverMoonWisdom: See, Ms. Bella, and all of that was what I was seeking back home and never found.
[13:33] LolaStardust: i never thought i would be one
[13:33] LolaStardust: i just thought i would keep doing what i was doing before coven...worshipping and doing magick
[13:34] SilverMoonWisdom: Haven't really found it too much in this area either, but I found the Seminary!! LOL
[13:34] Aisha: I didn't know either. (about degrees and clergy) Till I was googling, pagan meetups in my area, and I saw a witchvox profile of someone that was my customer in a grocery store. she was the leader of a correllian temple online
[13:34] LolaStardust: and i am thankful my old coven led me here, even if i had problems in that coven
[13:35] Ďèńńĭş Ķóşţęŕ: I was always thinking im no one until i got friends and one of them showed me the way to here and helped me to understand who i am
[13:35] MadHouseWitch: I sought out training but I found.... a long road of bumps LOL
[13:35] Aisha: and then because I loved it so much, I joined, started to study, and then I made the temple physical, and started getting more out there in the comminuty in my area
[13:35] SilverMoonWisdom: Long road of bumps.....I like that Mad
[13:35] LolaStardust: yeah Mad had a lot of bumps in the road...then she found me!!
[13:36] LolaStardust: and i foiund her!!
[13:36] LolaStardust: and i am so grateful for that!!
[13:36] SilverMoonWisdom: I found lots of fakers back home before I found any people who where true practitioners
[13:37] LolaStardust: so if i think about it what i want from my leaders in the community is to show me how to be a better leader in the community
[13:37] Belladonna Laveau: As we become more and more 'findable' we are going to draw more and more people who just want to worship and live a wiccan lifestyle without being a wiccan clergy member
[13:37] SilverMoonWisdom: Matter of fact, I was living here before I ever found any true practitioners back home. LOL
[13:38] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: the fakers do make things difficult for people who are serious about Wicca and leading others
[13:38] SilverMoonWisdom: It was very difficult for me in the beginning.
[13:38] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: it happens Bella
[13:38] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: Hello Kittie
[13:39] LolaStardust: Hello Kittie
[13:39] LolaStardust: oh thats fun to say!!
[13:39] ღ ĸɪттɪe ღ : :)
[13:39] ღ ĸɪттɪe ღ : it is
[13:39] SilverMoonWisdom: I will say that the people I have met back home don't really have a leader, they share responsibilities instead.
[13:40] LolaStardust: i think that is awesome silver
[13:40] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: I think what it boils down to is quality verses quantity. Standards need to be set, if not by the priesthood and the religion, then by those seeking admittance into it. When those who are sincerely interested in the spiritual value of the Pagan religions challenge the system, demand competent teachers, and refuse to settle for foolish titles, the Pagan priesthood will reclaim its rightful position in the spiritual community.
[13:40] LolaStardust: amen to that!!
[13:40] SilverMoonWisdom: Nods*
[13:40] LolaStardust: well said!!
[13:40] Aisha: Absolutely!
[13:41] MadHouseWitch: YES!!
[13:41] Belladonna Laveau: We have standards. There are many who decide they don't want to play by the rules of wicca, and decide to call themselves pagan and give themselves titles.
[13:41] SilverMoonWisdom: We have to have a true priesthood to turn to as well. Nods
[13:41] Belladonna Laveau: Then they want to be treated as equals.
[13:41] Aisha: And Priesthood should encourage others as well. And not use their rank to put others down either.
[13:42] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: yes
[13:42] MadHouseWitch: or just default to "Witch" which is their "right to do, but it makes things difficult in the long run
[13:42] SilverMoonWisdom: And I am not your equal on that level, Ms. Bella, or yours, Ms. Lola.
[13:42] LolaStardust: Lead by example
[13:42] LolaStardust: you are my equal cuz you are divine in the eyes of the Goddess
[13:42] LolaStardust: we all are!!
[13:42] MadHouseWitch: that was in regards to Bellas comment
[13:42] SilverMoonWisdom: I think of myself more of a first degree. LOL
[13:42] Belladonna Laveau: And I mean no disrespect to pagans in general. I'm just putting it out there so we can talk about it.
[13:43] Aisha: exactly
[13:43] Belladonna Laveau: Well, and that's true on a non-professional level for everyone. All of us are God and Goddess
[13:43] MadHouseWitch: it's more "leader among equals" ideally IMO
[13:43] Belladonna Laveau: In many ways, this phenomenon shapes our culture
[13:43] LolaStardust: yes mad i like that
[13:44] Ashke: Leadership is more about responsibility.
[13:44] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: very much so
[13:44] Aisha: It really is
[13:44] SilverMoonWisdom: Nods*
[13:44] LolaStardust: and its about learning thru trial and error and not being to egotistical when u make a mistake
[13:44] LolaStardust: i ask questions
[13:44] LolaStardust: i learn from my coven mates
[13:44] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: we all make mistakes and learn from them
[13:45] SilverMoonWisdom: Like Gavin said to us in class, "None of us should ever stop learning
[13:45] LolaStardust: i dont set myself apart from them, but i also know that they look to me for a lot of things and i am here fo rthem
[13:45] Belladonna Laveau: And works. Leadership is about what you're doing. In paganism across the board, we have to our titles everyday, because many claim then without earning them, or maybe without deserving them.
[13:45] SilverMoonWisdom: Nods at Bella*
[13:45] Belladonna Laveau: So, we each look at what those that call themselves leaders are actually doing each day, and make our decisions about who we look to for leadership based on reputation and not titles.
[13:45] LolaStardust: how does one know they "deserve " it?
[13:45] LolaStardust: just throwing that out there
[13:45] Belladonna Laveau: when people treat you like you deserve it
[13:45] LolaStardust: wanna hear others opinions
[13:46] LolaStardust: nods
[13:46] LolaStardust: yesp
[13:46] LolaStardust: my thoughts exactly
[13:46] MadHouseWitch: basically
[13:46] Belladonna Laveau: You can call yourself Empress, but that dont make you one
[13:46] LolaStardust: i wanna wear a crown tho!!
[13:46] SilverMoonWisdom: I have helped folks out that came to me for a while but I still just say I am a student. :)
[13:46] LolaStardust: lmao!!
[13:46] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: some common sense questions can show if a leader is deserving of being followed too
[13:46] SilverMoonWisdom: LOL
[13:46] Aisha: And trust me others will see the leadership within you by the work you put out tehre, people can tell a leader from someone just floating around pretending to be
[13:46] Belladonna LaveauBelladonna Laveau fishes through my inventory for a crown for Lola
[13:47] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: lol
[13:47] LolaStardust: giggles
[13:47] LolaStardust: i always say the proof is in the pudding
[13:47] Aisha: LOL
[13:47] Belladonna Laveau: :)
[13:47] LolaStardust: you can have the "title" but actions speak louder
[13:47] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: I like to call myself the King of the Witches because I can trace my teaching lineage to Alex Sanders
[13:47] Aisha: absolutely.
[13:48] SilverMoonWisdom: lol
[13:48] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: lol
[13:48] SilverMoonWisdom: So does Gavin
[13:48] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: lol
[13:48] SilverMoonWisdom: He said something similar too. LOLOL
[13:48] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: toward the end here, I would like to pose a question, what should a newer practicioner of WIcca ask of their priesthood and how should we evaluate a leader before following them?
[13:49] Belladonna Laveau: good questions
[13:49] SilverMoonWisdom: Ooooo
[13:49] SilverMoonWisdom: For sure
[13:50] LolaStardust: oohhh
[13:50] LolaStardust: hmmmm
[13:50] Belladonna Laveau: What a new practitioner should ask for would depend on what they need. Each Leader is different
[13:50] SilverMoonWisdom: Ummmmm, I think they have to know their stuff and have some type of legitimate backing for me to really recognize them.
[13:50] LolaStardustLolaStardust ponders
[13:50] LolaStardust: is there a test on this? giggles
[13:50] SilverMoonWisdom: chuckles*
[13:50] Belladonna Laveau: You have to look at that leader and see if they meet your needs, if they help you achieve your goals. If you want to be a witch in space, and your leader is a witch under the sea, you should probably keep looking
[13:51] LolaStardust: i woiuld thing their energy needs to mesh well too
[13:51] LolaStardust: since we are all witches, the energy of our leaders is important
[13:51] Belladonna Laveau: often times the Gods will give you who you need, and not necessarily who you want.
[13:51] LolaStardust: we can feel that stuff u know
[13:51] Belladonna Laveau: Shadow work and all
[13:51] SilverMoonWisdom: Nods* I can say YeSaH to that one too.
[13:52] SilverMoonWisdom: I have met some people who said they were leaders and even had groups that I was just like, "Nope"
[13:52] LolaStardust: a leader needs to be able to point out the stuff that maybe the initiate isnt ready to hear or see yet, but be able to turn it into a "teachable" moment and not a harsh critisism
[13:52] Aisha: You would be able to tell if this person is the leader you are looking for and you need at that moment. Be vigilant and observant.
[13:53] Belladonna Laveau: a leader is someone who is willing to gently give you the difficult news
[13:53] LolaStardust: agrees
[13:53] SilverMoonWisdom: I look at the good I hear and the bad, and then my own personal experience with the person.
[13:54] SilverMoonWisdom: And yes, a bit of eloquence is always nice
[13:54] LolaStardust: i had to hear things about myself that i wasnt ready to hear but i did my shadow work and now i want to pass that on to my covenmates
[13:54] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: things we can use to evaluate a teacher or leader include: A printed copy of their beliefs and doctrine, what do they want in return from you, what are their living conditions like, things like this can really help evaluate a leader or even a group
[13:54] Aisha: Leaders do see outside our boxes while we are stuck in ours. And they arent afraid to help our break through our box to succeed
[13:55] Aisha: us**
[13:55] LolaStardust: nods
[13:55] Sagan Skye: Intuition is important. Does this figure have a positive, lifeward feeling and trajectory. Do they leave you feeling drained? Do they want anything from you? Are they actively soliciting your trust without any basis to warrant it? Do they share and play well with others?
[13:56] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: leaders in the community need to show they are responsible, not just in the circle, but outside it as well
[13:56] LolaStardust: yes sagan..like what i was saying about their energy
[13:56] SilverMoonWisdom: Indeed
[13:56] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: very much so Sagan
[13:56] Aisha: exactly. Some do have jobs, are married, take care of a home/ as well as children and pets
[13:57] Aisha: and you see how they take care and balance their life outside their spiritual world
[13:57] LolaStardust: nods
[13:57] LolaStardust: is their life in chaos?
[13:57] Aisha: Right.
[13:57] LolaStardust: if so, is this soeone u really wanna "follow:?
[13:57] MadHouseWitch: this is true
[13:58] LolaStardust: how do they interact withothers
[13:58] Aisha: I have seen it, where their life is terrible, are in an abusive relationship. But they are an HP, lead a Coven, as if that other life doesn't exist, but the coven world is perfect
[13:59] MadHouseWitch: I also think it is important that they BE approachable.... if you can't ever get close to them, you can't even make bigger connections
[13:59] LolaStardust: so true
[13:59] MadHouseWitch: SO TRUE Aisha
[13:59] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: and it is ok that they ask for something fro you for training, printing out stuff and making things for the coven costs money, and it is ok for them to ask for something back to help cover the costs, or help with doing things around the covenstead or temple, I would be more skeptical of a teacher or group that were afraid to ask for something back, power tripping or other hidden agendas, there is almost always some exchange
[14:00] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: ok, it has been our hour and we need to wrap things up here
[14:00] LolaStardust: what a great discussion!!
[14:01] SilverMoonWisdom: It has been
[14:01] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: Great discussion everyone
[14:01] SilverMoonWisdom: lag monsters!!!
[14:01] SilverMoonWisdom: (`'•.¸¸(`'•.¸ ♬ ¸.•'´)¸.•'´)
[14:01] SilverMoonWisdom: ♫(`'•.¸:•.•:*¨*☆☆*¨*:•.•:¸.•'´)♫
[14:01] SilverMoonWisdom: ,.´:* APPLAUSE !!!! *:´.,
[14:01] SilverMoonWisdom: ☆ (¸.•'´:•.•:*¨*☆☆*¨*:•.•:`'•.¸) ☆
[14:01] SilverMoonWisdom: (¸.•'´(¸.•'´ ♬ ´`'•.¸)`'•.¸)
[14:01] Aisha: Awesome discussion everyone!
[14:01] AishaAisha claps
[14:01] Belladonna Laveau: thank you
[14:01] Belladonna Laveau: This was a great discussion
[14:01] Aisha: This kitchen witch has to run and make dinner for her love! Thank you again for having this!
[14:01] Belladonna Laveau: I appreciate you sharing your knowledge Reiko
[14:02] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: I have no wrap up, that ending pretty much was my wrap up, but I think we have heard some great opinions today and learned a little about what everyone wants from a Wiccan leadership
[14:02] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: oh
[14:02] Ďèńńĭş Ķóşţęŕ: i learned of this
[14:02] SilverMoonWisdom: Thank you for being here, Aoddreas
[14:02] LolaStardustLolaStardust points to the Cauldron slyly
[14:02] Aisha: hahaha
[14:03] Ąσddɾєαʂ ßαιɾʂєαςh: if you enjoyed this, and would like to help SC keep the lights on, please donate to them in the cauldron next to me here, SC is completely run by donations and they do a lot of the pagan community