Pagan News and Views Since 1998
[09:05] RevInnovator: Wiccan and Out in Today’s Society
A couple of housekeeping points
We’re discussing being Wiccan and out. We'll discuss what it means to be out of the broom closet. We’re not advocating that you should or shouldn’t be out. That is your personal decision. This is a judgment free discussion.
Why Wicca and not Pagan?
(From the Correllian web page, courtesy of Phyllis Curott Author and priestess)
As hosts, we are Wiccans, and while we are also Pagan, we represent ourselves as Wiccans first. The ATC, Correllian Traditions and many others recognizes Wicca in its own right, as best represented by the actions of Lady Phyllis Curott.
"While we are Pagan, we can only speak first to our own faith, and then our own experiences.”
What is Wicca?*
Wicca is a very peaceful, harmonious and balanced way of life which promotes oneness with the divine and all which exists.
Wicca is a deep appreciation and awe in watching the sunrise or sunset, the forest in the light of a glowing moon, a meadow enchanted
[09:05] RevInnovator: by the first light of day. It is the morning dew on the petals of a beautiful flower, the gentle caress of a warm summer breeze upon your skin, or the warmth of the summer sun on your face.
It is being in the presence of Mother Earths nature and being humbled in reverence. When we are in the temple of the Lord and Lady, we are not prone to the arrogance of human technology as they touch our souls. To be a Witch is to be a healer, a teacher, a seeker, a giver, and a protector of all things. If this path is yours, may you walk it with honor, light and integrity.
*Abstract from https://wicca.com/celtic/wicca/wicca.htm
Finally, please share your thoughts in local chat. This is a moderated discussion, your participation is what will make this a valuable experience
[09:07] LolaStardust: yes
[09:07] Aisha: yes
[09:07] Sagan Skye: yes
[09:07] Sage Moonsong: Yes
[09:07] Ashke: yes
[09:07] xricluclima: How beautiful it is?
[09:09] xricluclima: Can I talk about a subject?
[09:09] xricluclima: Is it to talk?
[09:10] LolaStardust: i have IM'd you
[09:10] xricluclima: com licença
[09:10] LolaStardust: xricluclima
[09:10] LolaStardust: check your private IM
[09:12] LolaStardust: I am part in and part out
[09:12] LolaStardust: if that makes sense
[09:13] LolaStardust: I am the HPS of a very new coven in my city
[09:13] QueenAthenaDruid: I was in at first. I didn't want anyone to know, not even my family. Then I realized that my family are very understanding people and I decided to come out of the broom closet. I have been out for about 3 years now.
[09:14] LolaStardust: and we are exposing ourselves slowly to the Pagan community
[09:14] QueenAthenaDruid: My main decision was that I just wanted to be understood. And I needed the support.
[09:14] LolaStardust: I am out to everyone except my elderly parents and older siblings..they are very conservative
[09:15] LolaStardust: but they know
[09:15] LolaStardust: without really talking about it
[09:15] Aisha: I have been very lucky. I was never in the broom closet. I honestly didn't even know what that was till I moved to the states. I grew up in a very eclectic pagan family. They were Buddhists, Hoo Doo practitioners, Mambos, you name it. And instead of hindering things, they helped me learn and grow.
[09:15] Ashke: I am out as Pagan to those closest to me. I have just started to learn about Wicca and haven't decided whether I am going to embrace that path. I know if I do, my local community would probably not be supportive.
[09:15] Sage Moonsong: I'm in a pretty similar situation to Lola. I'm out to my friends and to my immediate family (Mum, Dad, my sister), but my extended family is pretty devoutly Christian, and the last thing I want to do is cause any family issues, so it's easier for me to stay quiet on that front. Even with Mum, it's something she acknowledges but we don't really talk about, because she grew up in that same Christian family.
[09:16] SilverMoonWisdom: I lost friends and family stopped talking to me when I fully came out of the broom closet. Now, even most of my neighbors know I am pagan. Mom still tries to "bring me back to Jesus" but I tell her I am good. LOL
[09:16] xricluclima: I had a technical problem, lol.
[09:16] Aisha: I will say though with that said, I did shut myself off from my now husband. Since he is an Atheist, and I thought he was gonna hate me. And he felt terrible when I told him I have been hiding it. And he said I should never ever hide that. He loves me no matter what.
[09:17] LolaStardust: my parents and sibling cant deny what i am, they just dont like the word "witch" but they accept the word Wiccan better
[09:17] xricluclima: talk to her about the king miter
[09:17] Sagan Skye: I'm way in the back behind the coats and everything else
[09:17] Sagan Skye: community and professional backlash
[09:18] SilverMoonWisdom: I start to sing to her and she just turns her head. LOLOL "Hypocritical Mass" by Tuatha Dea.
[09:18] xricluclima: jesus maybe there was never the fourth dimension yes kkk
[09:18] Sage Moonsong: To be honest I do have a fair amount of fear. I don't live in the same country as my family anymore - I actually live in South Korea, which is extremely conservative. My boss knows and is awesome about it, but if the general community knew I'd almost certainly lose my job. So that's a whole other thing.
[09:18] Aisha: I also did hide it when I worked in a middle school taking care of a yound lady who couldn't walk. But I came out, because the school wanted to expell a young woman who had a book about witchcraft in her bag
[09:18] Aisha: I came out to defend her
[09:19] Aisha: and all of a sudden, the school was trying to get me fired
[09:19] SilverMoonWisdom: Where you live has a great deal to do with it. *Nods
[09:19] LolaStardust: i have to be careful with my children in school tho...they dont tell too many people we practice Wicca cuz they fear kids wont understand
[09:19] SilverMoonWisdom: Western Kentucky just had their first Pagan Pride Day
[09:19] SilverMoonWisdom: LOL Well last year I think
[09:19] SilverMoonWisdom: I now live in Tennessee but I have friends back home still
[09:20] SilverMoonWisdom: I was proud of them. They didn't get too much flack for it either.
[09:20] LolaStardust: Spokane Washington, altho in a very "liberal" state, is a very conservative city
[09:20] SilverMoonWisdom: Oh my.....that one church who shows up to protest here......
[09:20] SilverMoonWisdom: Shivers
[09:21] LolaStardust: triple moon tatoo, jewelery, and telling people
[09:21] LolaStardust: they just know when they see me
[09:21] SilverMoonWisdom: One of my friends here was accosted at work because of his pentagram. The workers and company backed him.
[09:21] LolaStardust: i had someone ask me "are you like those "charmed " girls on tv"?
[09:22] SilverMoonWisdom: chuckles, I know there will be
[09:22] SilverMoonWisdom: LOL Lola, I know
[09:22] LolaStardust: yes im Alyssa Milano!!
[09:22] Aisha: I have it visible as well. Jewelry, clothing, what have you. And I do tell when they ask
[09:22] Aisha: yeesss Alyssa!
[09:22] LolaStardust: i said yes im a witch if thats what you are asking
[09:22] SilverMoonWisdom: I have been asked to do magick on the spot to prove it is real too
[09:22] LolaStardust: just yesterday one of my tarot clients asked me "so are you a witch or are you Wiccan?"
[09:23] SilverMoonWisdom: "Show me". LOL Indeed. I have often said, "It isn't HP"
[09:23] LolaStardust: i said "yes"
[09:23] xricluclima: I also have problems with this here in Brazil everyone believes in Jesus but I have not created an astral of pandemonium in the society that I live but I follow well and everybody knows that I do not believe in Jesus, I had to explain why Jesus is not part of me It was difficult to protest and refuse, but now everyone knows even in school.
[09:23] Sage Moonsong: I wear this beautiful necklace everyday. It's a moonstone in the center of the triple moon. In Korea the average people don't know what the triple moon means, so unless you're actually Wiccan or pagan yourself, you won't know. It's a sneaky necklace; behind the moonstone is a pentacle. I feel like it's a metaphor in a way for how I'm half-out half-in haha
[09:23] Sage Moonsong: Yes! I know it
[09:24] SilverMoonWisdom: Smiles at Sage* I have one of those necklaces too.
[09:24] Sage Moonsong: Yeah, it's unreal. It's fantastic. I have a yin and yang tattoo actually, and my students freak out all the time! And sure, I'll send a link in just a sec.
[09:24] LolaStardust: if someone can tell im a witch right off the bat, they usually have a little "witch" in them already
[09:24] SilverMoonWisdom: Nods* True, Ms. Lola
[09:25] LolaStardust: they either think im a new age person, a witch, or a hippy...lmao
[09:25] Aisha: i get that a lot too lola lol
[09:26] LolaStardust: im too young to be a hippy but i love being called one
[09:26] Aisha: LOL
[09:26] LolaStardust: ah yes!!
[09:26] Sage Moonsong whispers: https://bit.ly/2M7G0HS
[09:26] LolaStardust: i do tell people i hug trees and talk to them
[09:26] xricluclima: you live in a parallel world as I am interesting are discriminated against
[09:26] LolaStardust: i wanna be 1000 percent out!!
[09:26] LolaStardust: and i am almost there
[09:27] Sagan Skye: I am really mixed on it. It keeps my practice focused and personal
[09:27] Aisha: Learning and growing within my Priesteshood, it is definitely helped me be out and more out.
[09:27] Sagan Skye: but, I would love to have a community
[09:27] Sage Moonsong: I'd really love to be more out, for sure.
[09:28] Aisha: I am a Second Degree Priestess of teh Correllian Tradition. It is Both for me
[09:28] LolaStardust: I love the Correllians!!
[09:28] Aisha: <3 And we love all of you! [09:29] SilverMoonWisdom: I have neighbors that I have experienced that with [09:29] LolaStardust: a lot of my clients i read for are not Wiccan so when they realize i am Wiccan it really opens their eyes [09:29] Ashke: I feel that one's spiritual or religious beliefs are very personal. So being out right now isn't important to me. However, I'd like to be able to minister to those in need in the future and that will require being out, so I'm hoping I'm brave enough.
[09:30] Aisha: I know I have changed a lot of people's minds. They meet me, and when they find out I am a witch, they are like, how can you be? LOL It is like they expected someone with a green face and a wart on their nose
[09:30] LolaStardust: they are like "Lola is so freindly and warm...this witchery isnt bad at all!"
[09:30] LolaStardust: i like to be the face of wicca
[09:30] SilverMoonWisdom: Some of them still pick at me and ask me about Jesus and stuff, but most are good with it, some just stay away because they are afraid, but I'm cool with most everyone here
[09:30] Aisha: and when they go and do their own research, they are amazed how the craft is.
[09:30] SilverMoonWisdom: I live in a trailer park of about 40 homes
[09:30] Aisha: So much misconceptions
[09:31] SilverMoonWisdom: I have handed out my Ostara eggs to people with notecards about the runes that they picked. LOL
[09:31] LolaStardust: lmao
[09:31] LolaStardust: ty Rev!!
[09:31] Sage Moonsong: I'm going to be contributing a small article every two weeks for Panegyria! Brenna wanted a student to talk about their experience at the school and I was looking for sacred service...
[09:31] LolaStardust: yay!!!
[09:32] xricluclima: Did you live in a trailer that you know?
[09:32] SilverMoonWisdom: And anyone who wants to sit the desk today and tomorrow is quite welcome. LMAO
[09:33] Aisha: LOL
[09:33] LolaStardust: i love that
[09:33] Aisha: Hey we all have our mini rituals, spiritual and mundane. And those things make us.
[09:33] Aisha: LOLOL
[09:33] Aisha: PATRIOTS
[09:33] Aisha: sorry
[09:33] Aisha: hahahaha
[09:33] Aisha: I live in MA
[09:34] LolaStardust: its like the people who have known and love me all my life, my religious choice doesnt change that.
[09:34] SilverMoonWisdom: I have Cowboys shirts IRL and in SL too. LMAO
[09:34] Damaras: Broncos
[09:34] Sage Moonsong: I'd say y'all are speaking Greek to me right now, but I think I understand more Greek than American Football XD
[09:34] Aisha: so true
[09:34] LolaStardust: SEAHAWKS!!!
[09:34] LolaStardust: sorry
[09:34] Sage Moonsong: HAHA that sounds pretty similar to our football in Australia too
[09:34] SilverMoonWisdom: I know that feeling, Lola. I have a couple of friends that are like that about me. ❤
[09:34] Aisha: hahahaha
[09:35] SilverMoonWisdom: I fell for football in high school. LOL
[09:35] LolaStardust: people who have "rituals" they do for "luck" dont realize they are practicing a form of the craft
[09:35] SilverMoonWisdom: There are more than we know, for sure.
[09:36] Aisha: yes lola!
[09:36] Sage Moonsong: That sounds lovely
[09:36] Ashke: I think it's important to be an active part of the community so when people find out you're Pagan or Wiccan that can see that "normal" people are those things.
[09:36] Aisha: I always tell people about blowing a birthday candle. MIND BLOWN
[09:36] xricluclima: They are talking about moorings and crutches for an incomprehensible society.
[09:37] LolaStardust: so the whole sephora thing marketing that witch kit..
[09:37] LolaStardust: i thing there was nothing wrong with that
[09:37] LolaStardust: it brings it to the mainstream
[09:37] Sage Moonsong: Yeah! I agree with that too
[09:37] Aisha: Yea I couldn't believe the backlash
[09:37] LolaStardust: and people got so worked up about it
[09:37] Sage Moonsong: I was kind of surprised at the - yeah, agreed.
[09:37] RevInnovator: https://www.wellandgood.com/good-advice/sephora-pinrose-starter-wit...
[09:38] Aisha: I was actually going to get some for my international correllians and ship them out, since they loved it so much
[09:38] Aisha: and when I told them about the outrage, they were stunned. and asked why??
[09:38] LolaStardust: it introduces what we do to the mundane people in bits and peices
[09:38] LolaStardust: and im okay with that
[09:38] Aisha: Exactly Lola
[09:39] SilverMoonWisdom: I think there is still too much persecution of pagan people across the board, not just Wiccans, though Wiccans are surely targets often.
[09:39] Aisha: I thought of that kit, as a gateway. A young witch could have gotten it and all of a sudden it could open doors
[09:39] Damaras: that is a pretty cool kit...and marketed to younger people
[09:40] LolaStardust: we as Wiccans need to understand that if we have the muggles interested in what we do, even if its cuz a tv show or a make up kit, is a great way to open up a conversation
[09:40] Breezy Hanging Silks - Long: Restricted to owner only!
[09:40] Sagan Skye: It is steadily promoting culture change - any vehicle toward that is helpful
[09:40] Breezy Hanging Silks - Long: Restricted to owner only!
[09:40] SilverMoonWisdom: I think leaders do need to talk to leaders, but there will still be those who pass on the negative though
[09:40] LolaStardust: and we are not "converting'..we are just trying to get people to understand
[09:41] LolaStardust: so we need to make sure people understand that
[09:41] Sage Moonsong: I'm with Lola. I just want people to understand. Like I said, I have this Christian family who just wouldn't GET it. I don't want them to all be Wiccan too, I just don't want them to judge me for following my path and my truth.
[09:41] Aisha: We, whether clergy or not, are all educators.
[09:42] LolaStardust: i think us being out and about in our communities and showing our lovely faces and positive attitudes helps a lot
[09:42] SilverMoonWisdom: I can agree with that one. We can all teach others a little something about us
[09:43] SilverMoonWisdom: Nods*
[09:43] LolaStardust: Wicca gives back to Mother Earth
[09:44] SilverMoonWisdom: We follow a Nature Religion and caring for the Earth is part of that.
[09:44] LolaStardust: We realize how importan she is
[09:44] LolaStardust: and wanna save her
[09:44] SilverMoonWisdom: We are OF the Earth, we share it but do not OWN it.
[09:44] LolaStardust: We are doing things that make change
[09:44] SilverMoonWisdom: We want to see it last for generations to come
[09:44] xricluclima: Cerberos and krotalus.
It will be easier to tame them.
To feel that I am your expected.
Too bad I saw you in the past.
I was shattered.
But it all strikes me now.
Have you by my side without being rejected.
I do not care who stays by your side or not.
It is that at times I feel loved.
And I do not even think about being acclaimed.
I do not see anything wrong.
I always learn from sin.
Everything is very accurate.
Each in its square.
But I ask you not to be silent for nothing.
Just see it all as a great road.
For me, never stop on the sidewalk.
Follow your lead.
Do not ever die.
For it will always be remembered.
Maybe you can be my beloved.
It was just one more trick.
My intention is to enchant you.
Can I just love her?
I have all the calm.
I can not feel it anymore.
But know that you are part of my soul.
[09:44] Sage Moonsong: I've been doing my Laws study catch-up, as I joined the semester late. And just recently I was reading about the Law that states that we have a responsibility to care for Mother Earth. To me this is something really important - and it always has been.
[09:45] Aisha: For me it is always like a circle. She gives to us, gives us love, and we give love right back to her. And she bounces it back to all of us.
[09:45] Damaras: we can really make a difference in teaching people and our young pagans about how to care for the earth, and making sustainable communities
[09:45] Sage Moonsong: Actually! This is maybe a way we can help people understand...
[09:45] Damaras: be an example
[09:46] Damaras: supporting pagan pride days
[09:46] Aisha: We are all leaders in our own way.
[09:46] LolaStardust: even simple things like treating others with respect
[09:47] Damaras: giveing demos of composting, making it easy for people to adapt
[09:47] Ashke: I think we should be visible and active in our community in any way we can so that when people find out we're Pagan or Wiccan they can see that Pagans are good people.
[09:47] SilverMoonWisdom: I would love to see the group back home practicing more openly. Right now they have a private FB page and work in backyards with fences most of the time.
[09:48] Sage Moonsong: You know, lately humans have been getting into the green eco thing... perhaps we can find mutual understanding in something like that. You know, there's been the no straw movements, plastic bag bans... it might be something worthwhile for us to be active on that front and show people that we care too!
[09:48] Damaras: helping to set up community gardens
[09:48] LolaStardust: helping the homeless
[09:48] SilverMoonWisdom: The most open of them is the lady who owns the local "Rock Shop".
[09:48] xricluclima: Is it all to understand reason?
And how can we not see all illusion?
In the parallels of this multiverse we met.
And we feel like a clap of a bell.
I clothe myself with you who drinks wine.
Embraced of you I smell you, it's magnificent.
Stop and feel your inner self.
Then everything is relative.
That in this finite universe.
Two souls without conflict ...
[09:49] SilverMoonWisdom: We want everyone to be able to be out, but I know that it isn't possible for everyone.
[09:49] LolaStardust: I am grateful for the support i have with people here at sacred Cauldron and the people in my first life
[09:49] Damaras: I am grateful I live in a community (city) that has a large pagan community and that the people here are tolerant of different ways
[09:49] Sage Moonsong: I'm grateful for my friends who may not understand, but who try. They ask questions, they seek to know more. Through our friendship they learn, and I'm grateful for that.
[09:49] SilverMoonWisdom: I am grateful for the friends and loved ones that I have that support me upon my path. Those who accept me and love me as I am.
[09:50] Aisha: It isn't any obligation to be out. The Broom Closet is like our path. It is unique to yourself. And no one should tell you that you are wrong whatsoever. It is about you. The magickal community will always be here with open arms no matter if your closet is closed or open. We are all blessed by the Gods.
[09:50] dcshy: hola
[09:50] SilverMoonWisdom: Indeed, Aisha. It is a very personal thing.
[09:50] LolaStardust: Hi dcshy!!
[09:50] Sagan Skye: I am grateful for communities like this one that give an opportunity to share and connect
[09:50] SilverMoonWisdom: I have a cousin who is gay and still in the closet because of her job.
[09:50] dcshy: how are you
[09:50] dcshy: dpeak Espanol
[09:51] Breezy Hanging Silks - Long: Restricted to owner only!
[09:51] Breezy Hanging Silks - Long: Restricted to owner only!
[09:51] dcshy: speack
[09:51] SilverMoonWisdom: No.
[09:51] SilverMoonWisdom: I do not
[09:51] LolaStardust: no habla espanola
[09:51] dcshy: hola
[09:51] Damaras: ☽☉☾Տʘ /\/\ʘϮ∈ iϮ ß∈☽☉☾
[09:51] Aisha: So mote it be! <3 [09:51] Sage Moonsong: So mote it be! [09:51] Donation Cauldron - to Sacred Cauldron: Thank you for supporting the Goddess and Her ministries. [09:51] QueenAthenaDruid: so mote it be! [09:51] SilverMoonWisdom: ☽☉☾Տʘ /\/\ʘϮ∈ iϮ ß∈☽☉☾ [09:51] Sagan Skye: So mote it be! [09:51] LolaStardust: so mote it be [09:52] SilverMoonWisdom: Smiles* thanks Ms. Lola. I couldn't get that to form in my brain.
[09:52] LolaStardust: TYSM!! what a great discussion!!!
[09:52] Aisha: This was wonderful!
[09:52] Damaras: thank you
[09:52] SilverMoonWisdom: This was great, Rev. Thank you.
[09:52] QueenAthenaDruid: Blessed Be Rev!
[09:52] Sage Moonsong: That was an amazing discussion, thank you so much for leading us in this.
[09:52] Breezy Hanging Silks - Long: Restricted to owner only!
[09:52] SilverMoonWisdom: First time I have every been to something with you, Rev. :) Great job.
[09:53] RevInnovator: http://thedailyspell.com/GWS
[09:53] SilverMoonWisdom: ever*
[09:53] RevInnovator: Thank you :)
[09:53] Sage Moonsong: Now to see if I can manage to keep myself awake for another... two hours..
[09:53] RevInnovator: http://thedailyspell.com/page/global-wicca-summit-schedule
[09:53] RevInnovator: Here's the schedule for the rest of the GWS Summit
[09:53] SilverMoonWisdom: So wonderful to see you all here. Hugs all around.
[09:54] Sage Moonsong: Oh! For anyone who wanted to see it and didn't, here's the Korean flag:
[09:54] Sage Moonsong: https://bit.ly/2M7G0HS
[09:54] Ashke: this has been a wonderful discussion, thank you all
[09:54] Sagan Skye: A question that might be worth thinking about at the summit- the more visibility Wicca gets, pan increasing number of people - especially young people will be drawn to the path at an increasing rate. What kind of support will they need?
[09:55] RevInnovator: https://www.facebook.com/KoreanAmericans/photos/a.10156911840010864...